Why Women Snap

[Triana]

Usually, not always, but usually, because they are victims of violence and abuse -- and then of course, they are victimized again by society and the criminal "justice" system in the US. Women in the US are not expected - not supposed to -- defend themselves in these circumstances. They are supposed to be raped, beaten, and murdered reguarly and never retaliate or defend themselves against it -- at least according to the US "justice" system. That's the message that is clear when one reads the statistics about how these crimes are typically handled in this country. The term "second-class citizen" comes to mind. I'm not surprised, mind you, but I am disgusted.

...

When women kill their mates, such acts are usually in self-defense -- or as a result of longstanding physical and emotional abuse. According to the U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), at least half of all women in prison, including those jailed for nonviolent offences, were abused by spouses before their incarceration.

Unfortunately, even strong evidence of being battered doesn't do much to help tip the scales of justice in women's favor. According to Harvard University domestic violence researcher Angela Browne, women who kill men in self-defense -- and where there is evidence of severe assault prior to the killing -- are acquitted only 25 percent of the time.

On top of this, women who are charged with the murder of their partners have the least extensive criminal records of any group of convicted offenders. Yet the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence reports that the average prison sentence of men who kill their female partners ranges from two to six years, while women who kill their partners are sentenced to an average of 15 years. In states ranging from Florida to South Carolina, many are serving life sentences without the possibility of parole.

In 1993 an Ohio-based research team studying the motivations for murder in intimate relationships found that 82 percent of men in custody who killed female partners or wives did so because they were motivated by "possessiveness," whereas 83 percent of women in custody described their motivation for murder as "self-defense."

...

http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/29483/

[Hello_Kitty]

1. I'm not surprised either

I'm picturing judges and juries giving light sentences to men for murder because they find male jealousy and rage understandable, even if they're not male themselves. Our culture is steeped in machismo and those entrusted to make judicial decisions are not immune from it. With women who kill in self-defense, there's a lot less empathy. It's also harder to prove how ongoing abuse can lead a woman to legitimately fear for her life. The "reasonable person" standard they use to determine whether acts are justifiable is based on a typical male. It doesn't take into account financial dependency, children, and the high likelihood that the woman is threatened repeatedly. So you can show some people evidence of abuse, stalking, and terrorizing until the cows come home and they'll still say "Well, why didn't she just leave?" They just don't make the instinctual connection like they do with the jealous man.

[WildClarySage]

2. "Why didn't she just leave" is the question women ask each other

about domestic violence because they believe it can't happen to them. It's a defensive response. If they blame the victim, they feel safer that they themselves will not be victimized.

She didn't leave... or maybe she did. 70% of women killed by partners are killed after leaving or attempting to leave. She leaves and goes where? With what resources? One of the tactics of battering is isolation- the systematic isolation of a woman from those family and friends who can support her, hide her, and give her strength. And money is usually an issue since that's been another controlling tactic: keeping track of how much money she's had access to.

So she leaves after a particularly brutal encounter. She has $20- or even $50. That's not enough to survive on if she doesn't have children. The local shelter is full... or she can't qualify because she's been there before and went back to him... or she can go there for the two week maximum many shelters are limited to, especially with social services cuts hitting them left and right.

Then what? Then he comes to her, with roses and apologies and it's him or the street because two weeks wasn't enough time to locate a sympathetic landlord who would waive the deposit and first month's rent. Or he comes to her, with a gun and promises to kill her and her family if she doesn't come home. And people have the nerve to ask why she didn't leave? The question should be asked "Why did he abuse her?" Not "Why didn't she leave?"

[Triana]

3. Exactly...

...I've known women in that situation. My mother, for one. And, things aren't all that different now, 40 years later. That women are still kept on the bottom of the social, financial, and legal echelons of society is part of the problem and that goes even beyond the men who abuse and try to control them.

It doesn't help when they need resources (mostly $$$) to get out of an abusive situation safely. It's not easy to "just leave" when you have nothing to your name and have to fear for you life if you do -- and if you don't.

There's a whole lot of this blaming the victim crap in our society and that's another thing that disgusts me. I even get it from some current (male) friends of friends. Their attitude is that women are to blame for being victims because they have a "victim mentality". Blame the victim of verbal, physical, or emotional abuse - it's all their fault. The whole societal attitude is just bassackwards.

No one asks these men why they're physically, emotionally, or verbally abusive or confronts them with their own nasty, controlling behavior. Ever. No one ever considers that maybe THEY are insecure, control freaks, or that THEY have an abusive mentality or that THEY have a problem. Nope. It's only the woman who has a problem. All her fault...

Amazing.

[Hello_Kitty]

5. "Victim mentality"....AARGH!!

How about the Abuser Mentality? I honestly think one reason people prefer to blame the victim is because THEY are too scared to confront abusive assholes in their midst. I mean, yes there is the occasional seemingly mild-mannered person who secretly abuses his or her spouse or kids at home. Those people are pure sadists and it's hard to see the signs with them.

But most abusers, at least in my observation, are your garden-variety bullies who push people around everywhere they go. People whom they perceive to be weaker. At work or in social settings they may not be physically aggressive, but they intimidate people verbally. If they're married it's not unreasonable to assume that they act like that, and worse, toward their families. But everyone walks on eggshells around them so they learn that they will get away with that kind of behavior. So when they find out he's beating the crap out of his wife and kids, eh? "I can't be bothered. Why doesn't she just leave? Must have a victim mentality."

Now that's my purely unscientific opinion but it's based on 18 years working in male dominated fields having gotten to know a lot of men from aspects that most women don't encounter. After a while they "forget" you're female and let their hair down. I've gotten really adept at spotting the bullies and abusers and I have to believe that the guys know who they are too. I rarely, if ever, see one of the 'good' guys confront another on his misogynistic attitudes. I do, but then they "remember" I'm female and my opinion is discounted.

[Triana]

6. Abuser Mentality & Confrontation...

...there is definitely an Abuser Mentality out there - the "schoolyard bully" type. No one, women OR men who are not the bullying types - or society or the law - will confront them. And until they are confronted and it is made known to them that this type of behavior is not societally acceptable and in many cases ILLEGAL, it will go on being the pervasive issue it is.

[ismnotwasm]

8. I think the term

Came about in part to explain why women return to their abusers. I have a friend who is a court avocate and works very hard with abused women. Sometimes, dispite every other option, they return.
Now agreed, If society recognized the abuse of women as the world scale epidemic it is, if the asshole spent a few years in prison the first time, and the woman recieved the social, emotional and financial support she needed, this would occur a whole hell of a lot less.

In Seattle, the domestic violence law is set up so if the cops can't decide who was the initiator if both parties are fighting--both go to jail. So even fighting back might be punished.

But one thing occurred to me when reading through this thread. At least a couple of times a year, up here anyway-- when a a woman is murdered "by a jealous spouse" Or a "murder suicide"-- What also makes the news is the detail How The Woman Had a Restraining Order that "failed to protect her" Or how many times the police "had been called to the residence"

So women who obtain restraining orders, who call the police are getting the message that these measures don't work--which they may not--, but the typically salacious way the news is presented spreads fear, and fear always lessons options. And when you're out of options--that's when you snap.

[Warpy]

4. The problem is the MALE model of self defense

that focuses exclusively on the two drunken bruisers in a bar fight. They don't have a clue that women's self defense needs are very different, that a woman who has felt her life in danger for months or even years may simply get to a point where she has to act, and that in so acting, she wants to WIN because she simply wants to LIVE. They also have no clue that the threat to a woman's life can be an internal one, a pregnancy that threatens her health, finances, social support system, and LIFE.

It's high time for men to stop asking each other "What do women want?" and start to ask US. We keep trying to tell them, and they keep dismissing us and our different needs because they simply don't have the same needs.

Until then, we can count on being victimized by religion, by the government, by our jobs, and by the courts.

[Triana]

7. being dismissed because we're different...

...that's one of the core issues. The MEN who run the gov't, corporations, PATRIARCHAL religions (a problem in and of itself) and who dominate most of society from boardrooms, bedrooms, oval offices, and pulputs, DO consider women inferior because they and their needs are DIFFERENT from men's.

That should not and does not make us inferior, except in the minds of these men and even in the minds of many women. There has to be a wholesale change in attitude about that in society -- but it won't happen by itself.

I have no idea how to affect that change, except to push to get more WOMEN in government. Preferably, not women who are brainwashed with inferiority complexes from a patriarchal religion, and who will push to see that women's value and needs in society and protection of their lives and health, is a top priority - and just because those 'needs' aren't the same as men's that they should not or cannot be addressed, or that they are somehow inferior. That half the population of this country is automatically thought "inferior" and still treated like that legally, socially, and economically, because of their sex is mind-boggling - in 2005.

I won't even start on how this effects children...

[eridani]

9. Ann Jones is always a pretty good reference here

Classics--Women Who Kill, and Next Time She'll Be Dead.

ttp://www.volcanopress.com/bookprofile.cgi?stockno=N1800&cat=&backmsg=

[geniph]

12. Those are great books, very enlightening

but dammit, you reminded me that I loaned my copy of Women Who Kill to someone, and never got it back! I hate people who don't return borrowed books!!! :mad:

[atommom]

10. Just read an interesting article about this...

It starts out by discussing "evil" women in the media, but then moves on to real life.

Are there cunning, narcissistic women who would kill for thrill or profit? Sure. Why not? Someone’s gender doesn’t ascribe ethical character traits, no matter how much essentialist thinkers would like to think otherwise. But the fact is that cold-hearted women who are simply out for themselves are a tiny minority of women doing time for murder—or any other crime.

When women kill their mates, such acts are usually in self-defense—or as a result of longstanding physical and emotional abuse. According to the U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), at least half of all women in prison, including those jailed for nonviolent offences, were abused by spouses before their incarceration.

Unfortunately, even strong evidence of being battered doesn’t do much to help tip the scales of justice in women’s favor. According to Harvard University domestic violence researcher Angela Browne, women who kill men in self-defense—and where there is evidence of severe assault prior to the killing—are acquitted only 25 percent of the time.

On top of this, women who are charged with the murder of their partners have the least extensive criminal records of any group of convicted offenders. Yet the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence reports that the average prison sentence of men who kill their female partners ranges from two to six years, while women who kill their partners are sentenced to an average of 15 years. In states ranging from Florida to South Carolina, many are serving life sentences without the possibility of parole.

More: http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2422/

[MountainLaurel]

11. This is an important point

Yet the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence reports that the average prison sentence of men who kill their female partners ranges from two to six years, while women who kill their partners are sentenced to an average of 15 years.

It points to the fact that even in the twenty-first century, there is still the attitude even within legal circles that women (and children) are property and the man of the house has dominion over them.

[bliss_eternal]

13. Betty Broderick and Clara Harris

The Lifetime movie portrayal of Betty Broderick pisses me off. When I found out more of her story, I was appalled that she was treated so badly by the alleged channel for women.

Of late, reports say she's been a model prisoner, has helped a lot of abused women behind bars, but the really interesting thing to me--I heard that she's not sorry. I think I heard that recently. She won't really say 'he shouldn't be dead' or she's sorry she did it. Did anyone else hear this? Is it right?

My heart also goes out to the poor woman from Texas--the former dentist and mother of twin boys, Clara Harris. She ran over her husband after catching him with the mistress...Anyway, her case REALLY pissed me off! There was a law in Texas that allowed a man to get away with killing his wife, but wouldn't see this woman in the same circumstances.

Get this, some guy apparently found out his wife was cheating on him. Ok, so he went out, bought a gun, loaded the gun, polished it up, drove back home, waited for her to get home and then BANG--killed her. They acquitted him under some law of 'insanity' because of the 'shock' of finding out that his wife was cheating.

Excuse me? The same law WOULD NOT apply to a woman that was DESPERATELY trying to save her marriage? A woman that dyed her hair, got plastic surgery, quit her practice--all in hopes of saving her marriage to this idiot, scumbag, cheating piece of shit. She was so obviously out of her mind with rage, grief, confusion--after he had PROMISED her that he was breaking it off that night--she finds them together at the hotel where they spent their wedding night. Then he instead of leaving with his wife to settle things, walks the mistress to her car. :wtf: I'm sorry I just think that whole scenario is ridiculously abusive and I can totally see how this woman was temporarily insane under the circumstances.

But not in Texas. For a man, no problem. For a professional, immigrant woman--no way.

[bliss_eternal]

14. Though neither killed for self defense

I still believe they were abused, maybe not physically as refered to in the source article in the original post. So in a way, one may be able to argue that in a way, maybe the fact that they killed was in a way (stretching) a matter of the mental and emotional torment of their husband's acts...

I find it interesting that these women are often refered to as notable cases of 'women that murdered their husbands.'

[Hello_Kitty]

15. Because wives are still viewed as property

Having sex with another man's wife is 'stealing' from him and emasculating. Women have no such ownership claims to their spouses. Not only are we not permitted violent revenge, shit we're not even supposed to get ANGRY about it. We can accept and forgive like good little long-suffering martyrs and keep taking him back. Or we can get a divorce but under no circumstances are we to show rage or possessiveness.

[bliss_eternal]

16. Exactly--I find THAT infuriating!

If you had heard or seen the American Justice about both of them. I felt terrible for both the women, really.

Betty had a great deal of promise earlier in her life. She married Broderick and put HIM through law school, working as a waitress while caring for their children. After he starts a successful practice, and the family reaps some of the benefits of his success--he starts telling Betty she is fat, etc.

Next thing you know, he's spending longer nights away, working late he says. She suspects an affair. She confronts him. He tells her she is paranoid and crazy (on top of fat). She tries to lose weight, goes to the office for his birthday to surprise him. He's out and never returns to the office...she waits all day and half the night for him (this story related by one of his office assts.)

He finally comes out with the fact that he is leaving her for his new, younger, prettier paralegal. Betty is outraged and devastated. She acts accordingly and he treats her like garbage. He was in with ALL the legal entities in San Diego and could get whatever he wanted, no one would go up against him. She was supposed to take what she was offered and deal with it.

It seemed to me, that the entire time her mental state was deteriorating, and she really needed help and support. Instead of being dealt with in such a hostile manner--no one acknowledged or tried to deal with the enormous levels of pain, rejection and abuse she felt.

After stealing her daughters keys to his house, she enters his home late at night, and kills them both.

I'm not excusing her final action by any means. But I think it's reasonable to almost expect something this violent and extreme. I really got the sense the woman was functioning from a lesser state--all the time that this legal battle of the divorce was going on. This woman was slowing going insane--from his maltreatment and abuse, his ultimate rejection of her. The way he used his legal background to dismiss and discredit her. Imagine that. She put him through law school, and the thing she gave him, he used to destroy her...horrible irony.

[Hello_Kitty]

17. I vowed a long time ago to NEVER put a man through school!

Never seems to work out well does it? I recall reading an article about that very thing several years ago. The author interviewed a lot of divorced couples where one had put the other through college. With the men it seemed once they got their degrees and got established, they'd begin to resent the wife. She knew him back when he was nothing and now that he's successful, he's admired by everyone else, particularly nubile young assistants.

That's what happened in the Broderick case. And like you, I find what she did absolutely horrific. But at the same time, I admit I'm not as sympathetic to the ex and his new trophy wife as I guess I'm supposed to be. Why was it ok for them to just shit all over her? It's so entrenched in our culture that when a husband gets tired of the old wife he is entitled to trade up and she should just fade quietly into the sunset. I think the reason no one wants to acknowledge the pain, rage, and shame these women go through is because to do that is admission that what has been done to them is fundamentally wrong. That would seem to suggest that women are people, and not property that can be discarded when no longer useful. Can't have that now.

I'm just as peeved at the trophy wife in these scenarios too. How can you be so frigging oblivious? WTF is so desirable about being the second wife of some asshole who dumped the first because she was 'old' or 'fat'? I look at these women and surmise that they must be in some kind of weird denial of the fact that they too will age and gain weight. But I guess if he's got money and strokes your ego now, you don't have to trouble yourself with those prospects. This isn't a statement about the murder victim in the case, just a general comment.

[bliss_eternal]

18. Those statistics are staggering--

I'm curious, what about on the other side? Men that put their wives through college? Did the women dump them, or trade up when their education was finished? I know of a couple that did this, he put her through--they are still together. It's interesting to me that the odds are so overwhelming on the other side. What does this tell us about the way women are regarded in society? What does this tell us about women in general?

Oh, and I TOTALLY AGREE about the other woman. For them to not even consider the other side...retarded.

The other case, is equally interesting and sad.

Clara was an immigrant. She worked hard, went to school, became a dentist. Don't recall when she met her piece of shit husband, but anyway they met, fell in love, blah, blah. Got married, had twin boys. He had a daughter from a prior relationship (this never seems to say anything to women either does it...like why did THEY split up). Anyway...

They merged their dental practices to one larger practice--they made lots of money, very successful. He starts to get distant. Women in their practice (assts., secretaries) tell her he's having an affair with the new office mgr. he had hired at one of their other practices. This woman had a reputation as a man eater, she was kind of known as a home wrecker of sorts.

Eventually she confronts him. He admits the indiscretion. Clara being the hardworking immigrant, thinks this is just another challenge to be overcome. She goes out to dinner with her husband and asks him what it is about the 'other woman.' He talks about how amazing she is in bed, her body, how in shape she is, blah, blah, ad nauseum.

Somehow Clara and he agreed that he was going to give her up. Clara quits the dental practice so she can focus on HIM fulltime. :eyes: Sorry--couldn't resist. Anyway, she starts working out with a trainer. I think she got plastic surgery. She focused all her time and attention on him and making herself better for HIM.

He tells her he's going to meet with the mistress--one last time, to tell her it's over. (yeah, right). Clara hired a pi to follow him. The pi reported after dinner they had entered a hotel--the same one they spent their wedding night. Clara flew their in a rage. Her step-daughter, called him on his cell to trick him to come out. Once he's down there, they both (the daughter and Clara) go off on him.

In the midst of this, he decides he's going to walk the mistress to her car (instead of leaving with his wife and daughter). While in the parking lot, Clara got in her car (w/the daughter) and in a rage, drove toward the mistresses car. In the process, she hit and ran over the husband. The daughter witnessed his death.

I've heard this woman talk of this a few times, and I totally believe her. I think she was OUT OF HER MIND with rage, grief, jealousy, betrayal, etc., etc. I really don't think she knew what she was doing. Evidence that was witheld during the trial shows that is quite possible--but it was Texas and they had it in for her.

It's horrible that the man died the way he did, and his poor daughter witnessed it. Really it is. But I don't think that woman got a morsel of consideration of what she was put through either. She was also cast aside like she was trash, and lied to by the asshat, may he rest in peace.

[Triana]

19. But Hey...we wimmin aren't supposed to MIND....

...being tossed in the backseat of some guy's life and relegated to second-class citizen status, or tossed out the window of his life like an old rag when he finds a new younger model he's more interestd in, are we?

Nah...it's the societally accepted norm. Dump the old breeding sow out to pasture, get a new young calf to romance.

If the table is reversed and a woman dumps the old man for a younger one, she's a SLUT! Mighty different set of standards we got round these parts, I'd say. NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS it's ALWAYS the woman's fault. ALWAYS. That's the way our society is.

:eyes:

Now, I did put my ex-hub through school and yes, as soon as he was done and got a job, I was chopped liver as far as he was concerned. He was DONE with me. I worked and paid all bills while he went to school (and I helped pay for that) until he got out and got his job. When he was done using me, we split. In the end though, I was glad to be rid of the prick and looking back, and SO glad I didn't stick with him.

I know of zero women or men who like being anyone's 'second-class' citizen or 'second choice' in life. I'm better than that and I deserve better than that. Most women do. Unfortuately they and/or society doesn't seem to think so.