Is there any chance that Wm. Jefferson was framed?

[grasswire]

Just asking. He keeps denying the crime. Stranger things have happened, and he DOES represent New Orleans and may know more than Bushco likes.

[LA lady]

1. I wish I could say yes

He has a history of innappropiate behavior. I think he's guilty and should resign for the good of the party. His seat is safe.

[Beelzebud]

2. He better come up with a video of when they stashed cash in his freezer.

I refuse to defend someone just because they're a democrat.

[bunny planet]

3. and he's got the first two names of a certain President the Repukes love

to hate and remind everyone of all the time.

Hmmmmm?

Don't know enough about the story to venture a guess on that. It certainly lets them crow about Democratic corruption now even though we've only got one to point to and they've got Corruption R Us in their party.

[Warpy]

4. Oh, please, if he'd thought that money was legal, he'd have put it

into his bank account, insisted on getting it in a check, anything but wrapping it up and sticking it in his FREEZER. If he'd been playing along and planning to turn against the bribers, he'd have called the FBI as soon as he got home.

I guess like all those arrogant sacks of shit on the take, he feels he's entitled, so it can't possibly be a crime.

It's a crime. He needs to step down.

[William769]

6. Oh My God! Hell just froze over.

We agree on something!

Scary thought eh?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. No. Stop.

It's this kind of insane thinking that relegates all of us DUers to "fringe" status.

He needs to resign immediately. Period.

[The Deacon]

9. Isn't there any way

The Leadership could oust him from his appointments(they've ASKED him to step down) so that they could at least APPEAR to have some cojones?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. I honestly don't know. I don't think so.

I think those are set at the start of each session of Congress. The seat's his until things shake up again.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

7. Fingerprint the freezer tin foil ! My guess - guilty BUT Bushco

has told FBI to escalate. People have said, How stupid can you get - collecting and hiding cash like that. TOO stupid to be real.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. Well, they sure are taking there time tying to build up a case

against him. All I can say is doing business/ getting things done in Nigeria probably takes a lot of cash. I'll bet this whole thing is a lot more complicated than it appears.

[gordianot]

10. All elected officials should be held accountable.

He can have his day in court.

[MADem]

11. Not only no, but hell no

This has been brewing for a LONG time. They have the guy on tape. He's toast.

[TNOE]

12. I think somethine is fishy here

and Al Sharpton said the same thing on Hardball - they've known about this for a year. Call me crazy - but I want to hear his side and his defense.

Oh, and my friends father always hid money in the freezer. Its not that crazy of an idea. He also hid money in the backyard, wouldn't tell anyone where and he died. Maybe it was a "depression" era thing. Or he'd been robbed before.

[Bluerthanblue]

18. you have the courage

to stand up for this mans 'right' to a trial- even when it is not only unpopular, but not easy to lay aside the 'media trial' that has already condemned him guilty as charged.

YOU are demonstrating that the 'rule of law' still lives-
Even if the outcome isn't pretty, or positive for 'our cause'- our CAUSE should be to stand behind the principles that are supposed to make America, and 'freedom' something worth fighting for.

I keep my sewing scissors in the freezer- because my kids use them for paper if I don't-
Why him? why now? lets let him have his say- he might have something worth hearing-
He at the very least, has the right to face his accusers, and be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt- not by the media, but by an impartial jury of his peers.

Or have we thrown that out the window along with everything else???

[tritsofme]

44. Do you give Tom Delay and Karl Rove that same benefit of the doubt?

I have no use for corrupt politicians, and no problem throwing them out with the bath water.

[Bluerthanblue]

46. Delay will

get his day in court- as for Carl Rove, no one is convicting him of anything in the media as of yet are they??? And I would hope that he gets his day in court- and that TRUTH prevails- regardless of how much money they have to spend on 'lawyers' (the Enron verdict is on the radio as I type this)-

Yes, everyone deserves the right to have their 'say'- And to be judged not on 'gossip' (have you seen the video?- seen the money?- heard any words directly from Jefferson about his version of the 'truth'?)

Pelosi asking Jefferson to step down- to me, speaks more about HER 'partisan' pinhole view- and her desire to look like someone who is 'righteous' rather than someone who actually is disturbed about the potential 'wrongdoing' Jefferson is being already convicted of- not by LAW- not by the COURTS- but by the worst possible judge and jury there is- the media, and the 'spin-machines'.

I'm frickin sick and tired of people telling others what 'they' should or shouldn't do, because it might 'hurt the party'- screw the 'party'! there are many people who call themselves Democrats, but with whom I share little else in common-

How about we judge individuals, not play party games?- While I stand with the Democratic ideals, and principals, I'm not a 'slave' or a 'pawn' of the 'party'. I will neither support someone I clearly disagree with because they have a D after their name, nor automaticly 'blow-off' someone just because they have an R after theirs.

Granted, there may not be many (if any) folks from the Republican 'group' within my circle of people I respect and support, but just because someone is a Dem- doesn't mean they are 'automaticly good'- or have to dance to the music I like to-

I want this party- the party of Democrats, to stand as the party of people from diverse backgrounds, and with minds that think for themselves- (precisly what drew me here and away from the republican crowd) There are enough 'sheep' in this nation- we need a leader- but not one that we follow blindly or have to agree with completely, or become one of "them"-

That is *'s mentality- "youre either with us, or with the enemy"- look where his perspective has taken us.

I have a mind, and a voice- each one of us do- any 'political party' that encourages us to turn off either of those for the 'good of the party' has fools for members, and will sell their souls for momentary applause.

(off the soapbox now- sorry to vent all over you, it's been a VVVEEEERRRYYYYY long week)

blu

[sendero]

14. I don't think he is "denying" the crime..

.. like most defendants in a similar situation, he's going to claim that taking the $100K was legal.

Which frankly, I highly doubt.

[Rageneau]

15. Guilty or not, we can use this against the rethugs

Right now, this Jefferson deal is a bit embarrassing for the Dems, but there may be a gilt-edged silver lining.

In their desperation to whip up a case against Jefferson, Gonzalez had the FBI raid Jefferson's congressional office -- heretofore a tremendous no-no. If this is appropriate today, then it will be equally as appropriate in 2007, when the new Democratic majorities take over.

Thanks to Gonzalez's overstepping, the various investigations the Dems are sure to launch will be able to go right into the Congressional offices of high-powered Rethugs and go through their underwear drawers the way Starr did Hillary's.

Since we instinctively (and impirically) know that the Republican Party is shot-through with corruption, this new power should make it easy to start putting these hooligans where they belong -- behind bars.

[Grebrook]

16. No, but expect this thread to be featured on Fox News

Like they did after the Tsunami thread talking about earthquake weapons. No offense, not calling it nutty or anything, just far-fetched. Jefferson is guilty, it's a done case.

[Bluerthanblue]

17. please excuse me, but absolF%^KINGlutely- If

we are going to label the man guilty without a trial- then shame on every one of us-

What ever happened to the right to a TRIAL- ????
The democratic notion that one cannot be treated as guilty UNTIL proven so???

Now, I'll admit, he may very well be guilty as sin- but without the benefit of a trial, and his day in court, we are no better than lynch mobs- willing to condemn someone based SOLELY on what the media has spoon fed each and every one of us.

Are we really this dense???? And 'WE' condemn the 'sheeple' for following * and his propaganda???

I'm dumbfounded- give the man his day in court- and look at the EVIDENCE not the media sound bites-

One thing that I despise about bush is that he appointed HIMSELF 'judge, jury, and executioner of thousands of Afghani people, who in large measure, did nothing to deserve what happened to them after 9/11, except have the misfortune of being born into the wrong country at the wrong time-

"Judge/Justice" isn't just a person, or a noun- it is also a verb.

That pesky document called the Bill of Rights spells out Jeffersons right to a TRIAL in VI-:

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense."


Keeping money in tupperware containers in a freezer is odd- but not criminal- He should have his day in court- regardless of how things may appear, or end up.

[William769]

19. He will have his day in Court! Just not as a Congressman!

[Bluerthanblue]

22. after being tried

in the court of public opinion- and propaganda.

Does it not seem odd to you that the FBI claims it has VIDEOTAPE of the man accepting $100,000, which they also claim they recovered 90,000 of, (with matching serial #'s) and audio tape that supposedly implicates him- and yet, they couldn't bring a case against him with THAT evidence????

Something really sounds off- big time here- really off.

They clearly had adequate evidence- they supposedly cut a deal with someone in his office, and they discovered the money last AUGUST????? WTF?

This isn't making sense- on any level- the FBI claims it couldn't get the 'evidence' it needed without raiding his office???? How much more evidence do they need if they truly have the video, audio, and recovered cash they claim they have????


I'm not claiming he is or isn't guilty- I'm asking what the hell is going on, and why aren't other people questioning the story being laid out???

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

24. Legally guilty and asking him to stand down is entirely different.

He will have his day in court. In the meantime, he should resign his position.

[Bluerthanblue]

30. and if he is NOT guilty? will he be

reinstated?
Doesn't something here bother you??? Like why the FBI needed to get into his office, if they already have (supposedly) Video and audio tapes which implicate him, witnesses (accomplices) willing to testify, and $90,000 that supposedly matches the 'serial numbers' of the bills used in the 'sting'?

What the hell more do they need? And why now? 9months after they supposedly nabbed him?

Remember, this is the gov't that said Iraq was full of WMD's, was buying crap from Niger, and declared "Mission Accomplished" some 2,000+ lives ago.....

Trust is not easly re-captured, especially in a climate of secrecy and arrogant deception.

This guy may be guilty as hell- I simply have absolutely no 'faith' in the integrety of his accusers, especially when they trample the Constitution in their never ending battle for "tooth, just-us, and the amerikan wave".

[leesa]

20. Wouldn't surprise me. Hastert would ONLY be whining about this to

protect HIS crimes. An old and frequently used technique is to say, "Look the Dems are doing it too". I believe Hastert is using this to get the Republican crimes protected from investigation. Whether Jefferson did it or was framed, either way, they get the FBI off their cases and they get to pretend they are not partisans.

[radfringe]

23. a theory from a co-worker

and even he admits it's far-fetched... then again :tinfoilhat:

hastert is focused on the documents - he wants them returned. Haven't heard a peep from Jefferson saying he wants the documents returned - nor much from him about the 'constitutionality' of the raid on his office.

the ones screaming about this are the republicans. so what's in the documents that has hastert's boxers wedged up his butt?

let's say there is something "big" in the documents, and Jefferson knows it is "big", and Jefferson was privy to something "big" (but not a participant) - he collects the info and then goes to the FBI

he says "I got some papers that will help you in the 'x' investigation, but I can't give them to you without endangering myself."

so the FBI creates a scenario where Jefferson is filmed taking a bribe, this opens the door for a warrant - and they go in and "search" his home/office and "find" the documents

give jefferson some cover... yeah far fetched, :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

except why did Jefferson say there were two sides to every story? This is not the kind of "I'M not a crook" denial we usually hear

then again - he was given $100k, $90k was found in the freezer - where did the $10k go?

overall - I think Jefferson is small potatoes in this -- the real story is WHAT IS IN THE DOCUMENTS - and WHY DOES HASTERT WANT THEM?

[leftstreet]

29. Jefferson did ask the FBI to return the documents

But it's still an interesting theory re: Hastert screaming the documents should be returned. It's understandable if Congress members are bitching about constitutional issues, but a little weird that Hastert "cares" so much, he wants the docs returned.


CAPITOL HILL A Louisiana congressman who's being investigated for bribery wants the F-B-I to return all the documents it took from his office during a search Saturday night.

Democrat William Jefferson filed a motion with the same federal judge who issued the warrant authorizing the search.
http://kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=4945258&nav=HMO6HMaY

[diamondsndust]

34. thats not as far fetched as you think...

but I was thinking more in the scope of Jefferson being involved in a reverse sting or something that has just gone wrong. Who really knows at this point though? If he is guilty, toss him out, period. We need to hear his side of the story, but he isn't talking much yet. I'm ready to watch it play out though. :popcorn:

[radfringe]

40. the devil is in the documents

most of the talking heads I heard last evening were chuckling over the irony of Congress being up in arms over THEIR privacy being invaded, and yet have done little screaming over the NSA invading OUR privacy or the VETERANS information being compromised from that stolen CD

the talking heads are missing the real story - those documents.

It's my understanding that a warrant has to state what police/FBI etc. are looking for - so they must have been looking for documents and/or other evidence related to the bribe.

Some members of Congress may feel rightous outrage over the FBI search and not be involved in the bribery scandal -- but for GOPers as a whole not to take advantage of using this as a way to slam the Dems is very telling...

The documents must contain something very damaging to more than just Jefferson. If there's nothing to hide - why are they so upset?

as far as pointing at bush and screaming "abuse of power"...snort - he's been abusing his power since planted in the oval office and the repub congress have been kool-aid drinking rubber-stampers.. although I agree that the bushies have and are abusing power - I doubt this is the real reason for congress to get their boxers in a bunch in this instance (red herring)

[Bluerthanblue]

49. couple of thoughts-

I agree, I think the people who have (surprisingly) voiced so much outrage, ARE frightened about what this might mean for them-

Second, I think the incredible shrinking poll numbers, and continual bad news, has many in the Republican party looking for any opportunity to distance themselves from 'unpopular actions' taken by their party than ever before. (The Republican party does NOT tolerate dissent, or encourage free thought)- Remember, November is only 5+ months away- And the summer looks to be a 'hot' one in many ways-

Thirdly, I DO think that the 'Executive' branch stepping into what should be the legislative branch, and setting a dangerous precident, DOES bother many people, on all sides of the isle. Especially when the people who would ordinarialy be 'quiet' or even defend the actions, could find themselves very vunerable-

It's odd, that lately the 'partisanship' over immigration, NSA, and now this, have shown some big cracks.....

Wish that meant hope-

But I'm not counting any chickens while the eggs are still warm.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. YES n/t

[Disturbed]

26. IRS could charge him with Tax Evasion,

right?

[SoCalDem]

25. If you TAKE money..and it's on tape,,,you DID it..

The "reason" or the method of catching you is NOT the issue..

he needs to own up to it, give it back and take his lumps..and before he goes, he needs to apologize and name names of the ones who bribed him.. he's probably not the only one..

anyone who was alive during the Clinton Inquisition, should have been smart enough to realize that republicans are World Class Panty-Sniffers, and they are always looking for democrats they can take down.. It mutes the criticism of THEIR BIG CROOKS..

[Bluerthanblue]

27. if the tape, and everything else are legit- why isn't

he indicted already? I mean, this went down in August of 2005-
Call me paranoid, I believe this is simply another 'numbing down' of the american people-
There are much bigger fish than Jefferson to fry- this smells like something rotten.

[SoCalDem]

28. Stuff like this is "money in the bank" for repubes

They save it until it suits them. Obviously NOW was the time it benefitted them the most.. they all knew that Due/Abramoff/Delay/Lay-Enron etc was in the works, so it made sense to "go slow" and use it when it would take some heat off them..

[Bluerthanblue]

31. I wish

I could view this with the sense of 'everything is operating as planned' mind you do-
But, I can't. I do not trust this gov't- and the reality that the FBI has in effect trampled the constitution in their 'pursuit of justice' and that Dems are not outraged by THAT- smells a lot like the kind of 'morlock walk' that they marched to in the days right after 9/11.
Too many outrageous things are being piled upon one another, and people are just saying "oh well, we'll get them in the nov. elections"- I don't like the feel of this- at all.

[ShaneGR]

32. He's guilty as sin...

His only defense might be entrapment. But I think he probably burned someone else in a bribe scheme, and that's where this originally started.

[Tiggeroshii]

33. Cunningham denied doing it.

Lewis is denying doing it. Hastert will deny doing it. And the list will go on. That doesn't make them less of the crooks they eventually turn out prove themselves.

[Buxtehude]

35. Why are house Republicans

demanding the FBI give the stuff back? Something doesn't smell right.

[slackmaster]

36. Maybe some of them have something to hide

Just maybe.

:hide:

[Buxtehude]

37. LOL they all ducked on that one n/t

[WI_DEM]

38. No, unfortunately corrupt politicians aren't only in the GOP

though these days it seems like it is the case.

[Buxtehude]

39. They are all

after all human. we the voters have to assume some of the blame. We've allowed campaigns to concentrate on everything but the issues. I'm sure we've ran off many a fine candidate by allowing the kinds of campaigns I've seen recently.

[HuffleClaw]

41. guilt or innocence aside, this is some odd case

1. other than folks in b-movies or soap operas, who hides bricks of money in the freezer?

2. the long delay THEN all sorts of details from the authorities

3. the raid on his office stunt

[B Calm]

42. Only republicans walk. He'll get hard time..

[DoveTurnedHawk]

43. I Hope He DOES Get Hard Time

Corruption is an abomination, regardless of party.

DTH

[jarab]

45. Amen, DTH!

We do need to get back to the times when elected reps at least gave the appearance of being public servants.
Had this been the average Joe, the criminal process would have been further advanced by now.
We need to take back our government - without paying hard cash in the effort.

...O...

[Jim Warren]

47. Something very bushy going on here

With the chimp SEALING the documents:

"Our government has not faced such a dilemma in more than two centuries," the president said in his first statement .........."

and then:

Under the president's order, no one — including federal investigators — would be given access to the records seized from Mr. Jefferson's office in a raid over the weekend.

WTF is that? The investigators don't have access???? So, just WHO is gonna be running the shred....er....I mean investigation?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/25/washington/25cnd-cong.html?hp&ex=1148616000&en=9c6ad64e3627b1c9&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Cha]

48. It sounds like he's

a dino so I don't think he needed to be "framed".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1284559