What is the explanation that most union haters give for "hating unions"?

[Iris]

I'm curious. I've been thinking about this today b/c I grew up in a union household and we moved to the deep south b/c that's where corporations wanted to go in order to weaken unions. Most people I know down here who "hate unions" do so because that's what they were taught growing up.

Have you ever heard anyone give a coherent reason why they hate unions? And if so, how do you counter it? If they hate unions because their "daddy did", how do you respond to that?

[sailor65]

1. I'll tell you why

because I've spent 17+ years in the Detroit auto industry watching the UAW increasingly sell out its members, lie, cheat, steal and turn its efforts to foreign workers. And because those betrayed American workers are my friends.

[Iris]

4. I actually can understand that.

I realize that unions have power struggles and unethical people just like most any other group. Still, it's interesting to me how they can be viewed as ALL bad when corporations and management and executive types get a free ride no matter how selfish or destructive they are.

[sailor65]

10. I can't comment much on other unions though

as the UAW and the CAW are the only ones I have close and long term experience with. I can only hope others are somehow better.

[Iris]

14. It's interesting for me to hear personal stories.

My dad was a UAW man, and there were things that seemed off and there are still some things that bother me a bit about the union but not any more than things that bother me about corporate america in general.

One story I've heard that made me be more critical was from my mother-in-law who worked for the phone company and talked about going on strike and how the young women walked the picket lines while the union bosses sat in their cars drinking coffee or were off "negotiating" somewhere.

[sailor65]

15. It was never so clear as in the AAM strike

in 2008. What the workers went through, only to have the UAW sell them out. Massive capacity moved to Mexico where none unions wanted more of a shot at those workers.

[defendandprotect]

12. Especially since corporations are the ones corrupting unions and attacking them ...

in every way possible -- including even using MAFIA to destroy the unions!!

[Hello_Kitty]

5. UFW is the worst.

Cesar Chavez is rolling in his grave right now. U.S. produce farms are a labor rights nightmare and Chavez' pal Arturo Rodriguez is too busy kissing Big Ag's ass and courting celebrities to care about social justice for farmworkers. I guess something similar is going on with UAW.

[defendandprotect]

11. And you don't call that "corruption" of the union?

Unions were destroyed by co-opting them -- sending in organized crime figures

to run them -- even using MAFIA to attack the unions --

Nothing wrong with the concept of labor joining together in unions --

corporations are united in every way possible -- hierarchies, think tanks --

secret organizations -- business organizations -- every way possible.

Why would it be a bad idea for labor to organize?

[sailor65]

17. I certainly do call it that

But the OP's question wasn't about corruption, it was about reasons people might have for hating today's unions. What I commented on is the state of todays's UAW.

[defendandprotect]

18. Same thing as corruption of the Democratic Party ...

corrupt the leadership and you get what you want!

[demosincebirth]

20. Sounds like sour grapes to me. I never did agree 100% with my union

but I would never be retired, now, living the life of Riley without belonging to my union.

[sailor65]

24. Sour grapes??

Sorry genius, but i've never been a member of the union. I've watched friends and colleagues decimated though. You can take your sour grapes and........

[demosincebirth]

25. You've never been a member and you you know what unionism is about? I'm

far from being a genius, but I have been active Teamsters for forty years and do know what I'm talking about. As for you, wishful thinking, maybe.

[handmade34]

2. jealousy

most people would love a Union job... there aren't that many and it is almost impossible to unionize a workplace

[defendandprotect]

13. Which brings up the question again -- why does unionizing have to be done thru a workplace ...

Why doesn't labor simply unite -- and force corporations to come to them

for labor -- where labor would set the terms, wages, work day -- etal?

[handmade34]

16. excellent point

and I have long advocated collective organizing, cooporations, power of the masses, etc... if only all would listen to me :toast:

[defendandprotect]

19. They should listen to us!!

:hi:

[Kali]

3. oh, you said a coherent reason

otherwise I was just going to say - the usual - deluded by their masters and old fashioned jealousy

[mrcheerful]

6. There are a number of reasons,

1) unions cost jobs

2) union workers earn more pay doing less work

3) unions decides who gets hired and who doesn't ( code for unions are pro equal rights for minorities to be paid the same wage as white males and ensure minority quotas )

4) unions means people can't be fired

5) unions charge membership fee's which takes money out of workers pockets

These are the 5 most popular right wing nut talking points in a nut shell.

[Iris]

7. but can they be proven?

Do unions cost jobs? If so, how? How many?

No union member has ever been fired? Ever?

If union members make more money doing less work, does the money coming "out of their pockets" really reduce their wages below those of non-union workers?


All of it just sounds like bullshit to me.

[mrcheerful]

8. You said nothing about proof and after all of the nonsense that right wingers believe

since when did they ever require proof or fact to become belief to right wingers?

[Iris]

9. lol! I can dream, can't I? n/t

[demosincebirth]

21. Can't disagree. nt

[Speck Tater]

22. My mom hates unions.

It's 1945. I was two weeks old. My mom was a country girl fresh off the farm who had married and moved to the big city. My dad was in middle management. The union at the company he worked for went on strike. He was one of the people who negotiated with the union. During negotiations thugs from the union repeatedly called my mother, the scared stiff 22-year old country girl, threatening her and her family (which at the time was only me, her infant son). They told her she better not let herself be caught alone away from the house. It scared the bejeebers out of her. She couldn't sleep at night fearing that every little noise was the union thugs breaking into the house to kill her newborn son. And the threats went on for weeks.

She has spent the last 64 years hating unions with a passion, and she will not listen to reason on the subject. I understand that, and I sympathize with it. She was deeply traumatized by those thugs.

While I do not agree with her about unions, that's OK. I still love her, and she still loves me.

[Iris]

23. yeah - I totally understand your mom's point of view