Looking at different sites on the net, I'm convinced of one thing...

[MrScorpio]

There is a concerted effort to undermine confidence in the Democratic Party on the net by right wing operatives.

Their main target is the President, of course, but it extends to all Democrats. It's absolutely NOT about promoting an actual Republican platform for running the nation instead of the Democrats... That's because the GOP actually hasn't figured out how to do that. They're too focused themselves on raiding the Treasury.

However, the web is chock full of all kinds of anti-Obama agit-prop, from stuff made in some kid's basement to carefully constructed OP-EDs from so-called "Democrats", who just happen to be on Fox News' payroll. Of course, the PUMAs love to add their digs as well. The Right provides lots of cartoons and opinion pieces for their own consumption and this stuff is conveniently available for any opposition-to-Obama minded Democrat who wants to make a point.

I figure it like this, perhaps there are people on the left who oppose the President and perhaps some of them MAY have supported him in the past, (Shallow support indeed, I say). But of course, a lot of the opposition comes from a segment of the left that has NEVER supported Democrats, but election season after election season, seek to glean as many votes as possible from Democratic voting blocks to pad their own numbers in failed attempts to get elected to office. Far be it from them to actually build support for themselves from independents, instead of trying to cannibalize Democratic voters.

That does two things, weakens Democratic voting blocks and stirs dissension among a large segment of Democratic voters. If I saw that kind of thing from a Right Wing perspective, I would view that disunion as a target rich environment.

The best way to do that is go into some site that has a large range of opinions about different things, (Not hard to find in any kind of Democratic site), and then commence to stir the pot.

Add "caveats" that "I've been a Democrat all of my life" and then state that that person's "dissatisfaction" with the President has made then angry and upset. The winger doesn't even have to out themselves by adding right wing talking points, because there's enough resentment already out there for folks to cheer on that rabble rouser. And be mean... The meaner the better, the cheer team just eats that up.

One good way to stir dissent is suggest that the President should get a primary. Since his 8 1/2 hour filibuster last week, some on the net are suggesting that Sen. Bernie Sanders take up that call to challenge the President. I can't think of a better way for right wing trolls out themselves, because as you and I both know, Bernie Sanders is a SOCIALIST PARTY MEMBER and NOT a Democrat. Democrats know better, most of your wingers couldn't be bothered with telling the difference.

And most of all, the Republicans themselves, with their utterly rock-solid obstructionist tactics are leading the way. In spite of the way that THEY play the game, I'm sure that all of them understand that most people aren't aware that the presidency is not a dictatorship and has severe limits on its power, the Senate Republicans understand this situation the best. So, our winger operatives are very much free to go around and portray the President as "weak" because Obama's preference for getting something (anything) out of a fractured Congress than nothing at all. Again, no Right WIng talking points are needed, just play on Democratic disunion.

These kind of comments are all over the net, it it's quite obvious that such a commonality of themes stems from a concerted effort.

I'm absolutely convinced that Democratic Sites are under attack at this very moment. And it's a shame.... It's a shame that Democrats themselves aren't differentiating our own penchant for differences of Left Wing and Democratic opinions from an actual Right Wing campaign to cripple our effectiveness.

[WingDinger]

1. Wrote a song about it, and it goes like this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9764428

The very definition of Concern troll.

[emulatorloo]

2. There's a long history of RW operatives pretending to be leftists

Some are going to find your post 'insulting" and 'preposterous."

Maybe useful to link to this recent example:

Be careful of trolls sowing dissent...
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x558993

Poster claimed to be Black, voted for Obama, but never will again. Includes photo of what is insinuated to be his beautiful baby. Turns out to be a stock photo called "cute black baby"

[MrScorpio]

3. That's a perfect example

And I've seen these same kind of tactics used elsewhere

[OregonBlue]

4. Seems to be lots of "concern" here lately. All of it anti-Obama "concern" of course.

[Goldstein1984]

5. Or maybe the dissent and disappointment are genuine

I haven't been a Democrat all my life, I left the party when Clinton began his neoliberal economic campaign. But I've never voted Republican, just Democrat or third party--issues and principles drive my voting, not party and platform. Contrary to my third party votes being de facto Republican votes, I view them as clear messages to the Democratic Party: You're too far off track.

I'm not part of the wishy-washy center, I'm a solid left voter and always have been. I vote for the candidate that reflects my views, and if the party has strayed too far right or isn't keeping it's promises, then my vote is the only tool I have to change that.

[MrScorpio]

6. I'm sure that you have your own motivation

But, do you think that it's quite possible for a right wing troll to take your own genuine dismay and turn it against all of us in a campaign as I've described above?

Again, it's not about you, per se, It's about spreading unfocused anger against everyone.

[madfloridian]

12. "spreading unfocused anger against everyone."

Every time genuine concern is expressed about our party's actions, such as in the Iraq war lead-up....we are told we are angry and unfocused.

So now it begins.

[Goldstein1984]

19. Unfocused anger?

Like accusing someone of being a right wing troll because they disagree with you. I'll just back out of this thread carefully and let you make my case for me.

[emulatorloo]

10. Of course. But that does not mean that RW operatives aren't amplifying it

or feeding.

[treestar]

14. If genuine, it is not called for

And people that far out of step with the real world should not be allowed to push anyone around.

[Goldstein1984]

20. The real world is

Children of the poor dying in Afghanistan
Due process denied
Secrecy
No public option
Tax breaks for the wealthy

You don't submit to the "real world" you work to shape it. It's funny how people satisfied with the status quo always advise to accept it rather than change it. The world isn't changed be people satisfied with the "real world." The real world is subject to change.

[Marr]

31. Wow- that must be nice.

Anyone who disagrees with you is by definition irrational, and should be ignored.

[EFerrari]

7. OMFG! You mean, Bernie Sanders is a SOCIALIST?!

:scared:

[MH1]

8. k & r

not that my rec will do much good against the tide.

[jaxx]

9. I am in agreement Mr. Scorpio.

When rightwing talking points take over and Democratic people fall in line with them, it's a sad day. We know they don't like the President, he scares them. He is a known liberal, a man with heavy liberal votes, and not the old-time presidents they're used to dealing with. So they have said no...until the unemployment extension and tax deal. That was because they had to or face losing the tax cuts for the rich forever. They most likely will anyway in two years.

For unknown reasons the Democrats haven't figured this out yet. So they also spout the winger rhetoric of weak and want him to fail. It's pretty bad, and as you said, it's all over the net. I've yet to see any alternative to President Obama, only more rhetoric about primary him and actually it was said to impeach him the other day. This isn't Democrats talking, it's people with an agenda....and not one that will do the Democratic Party any good.

[SidDithers]

11. K&R...

the imposter outed at DKos a few months ago is another great example.

Sid

[treestar]

13. Rec'd. It is clearly obvious. Just the thing Republicans love to do

They think they are so funny and laugh at the people they manipulate. Unfortunately they were rewarded with victory in 2004 when they came up with their "clever" attack-the-strength method and the non-serving Bush in time of war was somehow better than the Democrat who had actually served in a real war.

It is just so like them to spread the idea that the Democrats are "losing their base." Right up their alley. Though they are wrong they will continue to do it, since they are shameless and don't care what absurd things they say.

[quinnox]

15. It must be comforting to think everyone who disagrees with you

must be a right wing troll.

[emulatorloo]

18. OP post does not say everybody is a right wing troll

Reread it, don't put words in his mouth.

Like it or not there is historical precedent for RW infiltrators to pretend to be leftists. That doesn't mean everybody is a troll, but it is important to be cognizant to the possibility that trolls are fanning the flames and stirring the pot. Especially if the rhetoric is simplistic, inflammatory, doesn't survive a fact check.

RECENT EXAMPLE:

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x558993

[T Wolf]

16. Obama and the other sell-outs calling themselves Democrats are the ones who are

trying "to undermine confidence in the Democratic Party" and they are doing a damn fine job of it, thank you very much.

You lightly dismiss the basic dissatisfaction that liberals have with Obama and the DLC as coming from false-libs working for Fuck Nuze, angry HRC-supporters who have not gotten over 2008, and (the least objectionable) "shallow" folks who "MAY have supported" Democrats in the past. I guess we are just too worried about our ponies (wars, torture, corporatism, civil rights, medical care, environmental protection, secrecy/openness, etc.) to see all the wonderful progress that has been made.

No one on the left has said that we support the rethug positions. We do know that the Democrats are not identical to the rethugs.

But, in terms of functional and operational definition, they are close enough for government work.

[emulatorloo]

17. Obama Job Approval Liberal Democrats 83%

You can see he has his lowest approval among conservative Democrats. But that's still at 69%

Nov 29 to Dec 5th (that's the latest they have)

Obama Approval Rating:

Democrat total 78%

Conservative Democrat 69%
Moderate Democrat 75%
Liberal Democrat 83%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx

For better or worse, I think it is important that we realize DU is a bubble and an echo chamber.

[Donnachaidh]

23. and todays has his approval rating at 46% and disapproval at 47%

BIG difference from that 83% that's being flouted by some here.

[emulatorloo]

27. New numbers: Job Approval Democrats; 80% Dec 6-12, 2010

Obama Approval Rating:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx
Dec 6-12, 2010

Democrat total 80%

Conservative Democrat 67%
Moderate Democrat 77%
Liberal Democrat 79%

======
We need to recognize that DU is an echo chamber/

[TransitJohn]

33. ...

[bemildred]

21. The web that can be manipulated is not the real web. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Not to mention the shocking lack of pom-poms and "I Love Obama" jingles.

[bobbolink]

26. Can't forget the "enemies lists".

[emulatorloo]

30. especially since that nonsense originated with Karl Rove.

[brooklynite]

24. This is silly...

The notion that the "Right Wing" is spending a minute of its time, much less a concerted effort to to create disunity among Democrats by posting things here and at other pro-Dem websites is ludicrous. DU doesn't drive Democratic policy, any more than FreeRepublic drives Republican policy. The reality is that the Democratic Party, for better or worse, is a Center-Left party, which means it has both "Centrists" and "Leftists", who aren't going to agree on things. The problem, quite frankly, is with people who are so intolerant of any position other than their own that they choose insults and accusations rather than an actual debate of the issues.

[lpbk2713]

25. K n R

I wouldn't put anything past those assholes.

[inna]

28. it's a shame that the core democratic values are being attacked

[Marr]

29. I'm equally convinced that blogs and forums are beset with paid supporters.

I do a lot of work in advertising, and I was recently involved in a sort of online message control project for a major software corporation. They teach their clients how to maintain a presence online that isn't overtly associated with their brand. In other words, being present on blogs and forums to subtly steer perception in the desired direction.

If people are doing that to sell cars and coffee, I've no doubt whatsoever that big political interests are doing it. Their only product is opinion.

[The Midway Rebel]

32. I agree.

But, I think the current crop of Democrats enable the RW attacks with their shitty RW policies. It is almost like there is only one political party in America: the Money Party.

[ZombieHorde]

34. Recommended. nt