Reply #175: My apologies. [View All]

[one-eyed fat man]

I misunderstood the request. What little information I was linking to indicates that the police are more likely to shoot the "wrong" person than the concealed carry permit holder.

But if anecdotal data points are of any use to you: Here are some comments from cops who are active shooters and collectors gleaned from a recent thread on a collectors forum involving buying used law enforcement agency guns. The general consensus is most cops carry a gun because the job makes them, even among the police themselves. Most cops who are active shooters above and beyond job requirements see themselves in a minority among their contemporaries. Sixty years of shooting with cops my observation reinforces that opinion. Some agencies require more shooting than others, those requiring 200 rounds seem to be the median, those requiring a 1000 a year at the extreme.

I've bought myself quite a collection of 'police trade' firearms.

Some of these guns really do seem used but little...and carried a bunch. Others are pretty well used period.

Some of my 'trade' guns have come from overseas, and look heavily used and abused.

The last leo trade in gun I bought is a Ruger Mini 14. It really does appear to be lightly used.....and it's about 30 years old.

I have a number of S&W 3rd Gen Police trade-ins, and am an LEO. I read constantly on this forum and others how police trades in are "carried a lot but shot very little". It's almost an obligatory post when someone talks about an ex-LEO sidearm. My last purchase was a Cleveland Ohio PD marked 5943. I would guess it has around 10,000 rounds or so through it. But I easily rebuilt it with new springs and few other parts and now she's a smooth shooter (and probably was before the upgrade, I will never know).

So what do all these people consider to be "shot very little"? When I traded off my department's Glock 17s they each had anywhere from 15,000-25,000 rounds through them of academy and agency ammo (standard pressure, +p and +p+). I could not guess how much they were shot with personal ammo. I know my issue gun easily surpassed the 30,000-35,000 round tally. To me that is not carried a lot and shot very little, its carried a lot and shot a lot. But even focusing on the people in my agency who are not gun people, they will still push a solid 15,000+ rounds or more down range before their sidearm is traded off for a new one. To me 5,000 rounds is shot very little (it's also about double what I consider to be the break in point). How about you?

As an LEO I know countless Officers in my dept. that only practice with their service pistols the required minimum of four sessions a year. Daytime Practice and daytime Qualification and then Nighttime Practice and Nighttime Qualification. Of course if an Officer wants to practice he or she is encouraged to do so. Our range staff has a Service Pistol Practice session a day a month and you can come out and shoot the State mandated course of fire. I have done that a bunch and the ammo is provided free of charge. Relays are rarely full so out of 1,700 sworn we have anywhere from 5-15 per month taking advantage of that.

Some people, myself included, also practice on their own and their ammo is at their own expense and a tax write-off. Again, this is rare. So in my personal experience over the last 17 years, most Officers in my agency (can't speak about other agencies) shoot the required four sessions a year at a round count of a whopping 200 rounds per year. Our qualification course is only 50 rounds. Add that up and over a 5 year period you're looking at 1,000 rounds.

NYPD model 10's, the guys would try to get their cylinders so rusty they wouldn't open and therefore couldn't perform patrol until the range replaced the cylinder or a loaner was given. Other guys upon notification of having to go to Rodman's Neck thought they should check out their revolver before they got there. Some ( most ) hadn't been unholstered for a year. You would not believe the tools used in the locker room to try and free up the cylinder. Slappers, billy's, nightsticks, cuffs, radiators all on those poor model 10's. As far as the RMP's when they needed oil and only when, and thats even if the oil light came on, we had 55 gallon oil drums in the garage. Cops would pick up anything out of the garbage, floor, to scoop oil out of drum and into car. I remember one female picking up a full McDonald's cup of soda topping it off with oil and pouring it into vehicle block. I would never buy a used Police vehicle, or gun. Here in S.Florida it's better but still these RMP's are beat to **** and even though the mileage may be low, they are standing idling in the heat with full A/C for entire 12 hour back to back shifts. There is no reason to care for them, a lot of cops aren't happy at work for one thing and maintaining a city vehicle has no rewards. Just my opinion, take it for what it cost.

Sgt, I'm retired NYPD as well. while I would never buy a ex police vehicle, you and I both know that the average NYPD cop shoots only when he goes to qualify (and I'm sure that goes for most PD's). So 2 times a year at Rodman's Neck, at 200 rounds a session means that you are firing 400 rounds a year. That's 8000 rounds in a 20 year career. Now, cops weren't great with maintaining their weapons (although I was. Some of my guns are 30 years old and look brand new), a thorough cleaning will remedy that (maybe change some springs). I've seen cops unholster their guns and french fries fall out of the holster. Would i buy a cop gun dedicated to recruit training? Hell no. But a 20 year model 10 still has TONS of life left.

KBM, Nothing but respect to you. Remember the dogs at the range? The prisoners? The meatball sandwiches? Anyway, did my whole 20 in the 32, 34, and 26pct's. So did Wifey.
Somehow, were still doing it here in S. Florida. Never thought I'd miss being on the job, even though they consider this being on the job. Kinda miss my swivel holster and cap. Oh well
Good luck to you