We weren't wanting a pony.

[MadHound]

I keep seeing the talking points around here about liberals wanting a pony, unicorn, whatever and since we haven't gotten it, that's why we're unhappy with the Obama administration. I've also seen a similar talking point saying that liberals are too impatient with Obama, that it takes time for Change to happen and we need to be patient.

That simply isn't the case.

The vast majority of liberals didn't want a pony, nor did we want tons of change now. Myself, and many others, are actually quite pragmatic about politics and realized that change would be incremental, and that it would take time. After all, we've seen this all happen before.

What we didn't expect, nor want, was for a supposed set of political allies in the White House to start actually attacking us, nor did we want that "Change" to be for the worse. Yet that is what has happened. Obama and his White House has put millions of liberals under attack in many different ways. If you are a teacher, you're under attack. If you are a civil libertarian, you are under attack. If you are anti-war, nobody is listening to you. If you are middle or working class, expect to be under attack in a few years, as that mandated monopoly known as HCR allows you to be bled dry by the insurance industry.

The lists of attacks on ideals and principles that we on the left hold dear is a long one.

We weren't expecting a pony. We didn't expect to see thirty years of damage undone overnight. However we were expecting that, at worst, the left would suffer from some sort of benign neglect, the usual case these days for liberals in the Democratic party. Instead, our issues and ourselves came under attack almost from the minute Obama took office. This is why the left in this country is unhappy, this is why we're pissed off, because an administration that we thought was at least marginally on our side(especially since we gave of ourselves to get him there) is now turning around and attacking liberals on several fronts. This isn't what we signed up for, this isn't what we support. This is why liberals are now suddenly pissed at Obama.

It isn't ponies,

It isn't unicorns,

It is the simple fact that we are now under assault by this administration, just as we were under Bush.

Do you get it now?

[VMI Dem]

1. Rec.

[madokie]

2. could it be you were wanting Hillary?

I don't have time right now to do a search but my hunch is that is what I'd find. If I'm wrong then my bad.

[MadHound]

7. Your bad, really, really bad.

Go back and do your research, you'll find that I blasted Hillary as much, if not more so than Obama. Kucinich was, and still is, my man.

But the thing is, I'm not wanting to refight the primary wars, I am talking about what Obama has done since getting into office. My man lost, fine, no problem, I wasn't expecting him to win anyway. But at worst I was expecting benign neglect from this administration. Instead I find myself, my career, my values under attack from several different angles, attacks being launched by this administration.

I didn't sign up to attacked, and neither did millions of others. You are foolish is you continually beat a group of people over the head, yet expect them to support you every two years. But this seems to be the pattern of the past couple of Democratic administrations.

And you wonder why the party is losing voters and support, there it is.

[RainDog]

10. exactly n/t

[madokie]

12. Good then start voting republicon

Obama was left with a shitpot full of problems, many I suspect haven't surfaced even yet so I personally will give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[racaulk]

41. +1

[flyarm]

42. +++++ 1 million! coffee cleaning keyboard time now!

[tomp]

68. excellent reply!

perhaps the poster's manners will smooth out by 2012, when he/she and his /her ilk are begging for votes.

[LiberalLovinLug]

175. I hate these moderation deletions.

On my nearly 1000 post, I feel I can view my opinion on this. If there were 4 people that agreed and praised the poster, I'd like to see what he/she said!!!

Nothing against the mods, they are doing a great voluntary service, I just wish the rules were to at least keep the offending comment on the board for all to see, even for the purpose of showing what is NOT allowed.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

26. I wish the central committee would send you kids some new talking points, n/t

[Lost4words]

38. +1 nt

[laughingliberal]

152. +2 nt

[laughingliberal]

153. delete/dupe.

[awoke_in_2003]

171. +1000. nt

[MissDeeds]

219. +1

They always seem to slip into the same, tired meme when out of ideas or trying to defend the indefensible. Pathetic.

[DRoseDARs]

308. You just made me spit out my Cheerios, jerk.

Bravo! :) :thumbsup:



Mods: The "jerk" comment was meant in jest and friendly needling. Chill.

[MadHound]

34. Ah, that old canard,

And you folks wonder why the Democratic party has lost power. It isn't that you change the party to fit the view of the people who make up the party, oh no. You adapt a "my way or the highway" mentality that pisses people off, and they stay home. This has been going on for decades, until we've reached the point where the largest group of voters are apathetic voters, who though they are still liberal, have been either rejected, or become fed up with the Democratic party to the point where they don't vote. Thus, 'Pugs continue to win and win.

So how is that "toe the party line" strategy working out for you. After decades of observation, I would say not so well at all.

Perhaps the party should start changing in response to the people rather than trying to force people to fit into some pre-made party mold. After all, this is, at least nominally, a democracy where the people are supposedly the ones ultimately in charge.

[Steely_Dan]

115. It's Called "Principles."

It's called standing up and being true to your convictions. The problem with the "new" Dems is that they have lost sight of what has made our party great. Saying something like "we need to get new talking points from the Central Committee" exposes you as a person who has no interest in maintaining the essential principles of what it means to be a Democrat.

I will not ever compromise my belief that the Democratic Party is the party of the people. If you want to imply that this is communism. So be it. I will always fight against man's inhumanity to man.

-PLA

[laurel46]

139. You mean the media has presented this image!

Remember the sherrod tape? this is how republicans are manipulated into thinking. Blatant lies are told on air, racial tensions inflamed, and hate and hostility are preached all day long on radio. If Obama were so business friendly and against dems, why are the insurance industries and chamber of commerce desperately throwing billions to stop him with this hysteria that has turned into the right wing lie machine? The republicans go to the progressive sites (I don;t see many dems on conservative blogs) to further this disinformation campaign and too many people fall for this. Why are conservatives here? Desperate is what I think because the unemployed blue collar workers in construction, manufacturing, along with the banking sector have a lot of time on their hands and a lot at stake.

I also recall that Obama started to release the torture documents right around the time his image or actions changed. Sounds like he was threatened and all this cash thrown at propaganda to undermine and demoralize the dems shouldn't be over looked. When coming to a conclusion on what Obama and the dems did, remember Sherrod and just how savage the republicans have gotten.

Just look at what madhound wrote and see how the exact oppisite is true, madhound is describing conservatives in the same tired right wing propaganda way. Are you so pissed off madhound that you stay home after being fired and write on democratic blogs? By the way, liberal is from the word liberty. We are the party of Liberty.

[MadHound]

142. LOL! "We are the party of liberty." LOL

:rofl:

Well, without going into the historical inaccuracy of that claim of yours, let me ask you this question. If we are the party of liberty why is Obama curtailing our civil liberties, rather than freeing them from the nightmare of the Bush era?

Let me ask you something else. Why is Obama fighting a war against public education?

Another question, why is Obama continuing to waste lives, money and resources on two illegal, immoral wars while here at home we are suffering, both economically and physically?

You are one twisted puppy if you think that being pro public education, pro civil liberties, and anti-war are conservative issues.

Or are you trying to imply that somehow I'm some sort of conservative infiltrator, here to cause disruption and distress. If so, then not only are you breaking the rules, but you are also showing off your own ignorance since I have been here for a much, much longer time than you.

Now, do you have anything intelligent to say, or are you simply going to continue to sling insults and innuendo?

[laurel46]

154. See the word liberal in dictionary, also paranoia.

[MadHound]

163. In other words, you have nothing intelligent to say,

Just responding with more insults and blathering bullshit.

[laurel46]

205. Sorry, but it wasn't a personal attack madhound.

I don't believe my post said you were conservative and I do not mean to attack you personally, I too feel the way you do at times. I was pointing out that media can be misleading and there are other explanations and after the Sherrod tape, I do not know what to think about the claims made about Obama's behavior. I suggest we question whether his actions are being misrepresented by his enemies and that we dems here are not enemies. Once again, sorry if my first post was insulting to you personally, I did not mean to attack you, only to attack conservative media and should have dropped the paranoia quip.


The last line should have said liberal blogs. As I said, sorry, my mistake.

[ooglymoogly]

328. It is hard to tell where you are going with the several conflicted directions

of your post, backed only with flat out wrong assertions. One only need look at the stocks of these companies after HCR was passed and that O "damaged" with such propagandistic and Orwellian "largess" to the people, or, barring that, read the fine print and be able to put two and two together with at least a child's ability to extrapolate.

As for the chamber of commerce; They have an entirely different axe to grind and an even sicker agenda, that would take more time than I am willing to devote to such blind wanderings, coupled with a blind devotion to a dream that can't be let go; Even in the face of ever mounting evidence and the most blatant obtuseness.

[Jackpine Radical]

169. You're outta your mind.

That would cut funding from the corporations.

[MadHound]

178. OMG, my old man senility is showing,

Here I am, expecting government to be about we the people. Such strange, radical bullshit, eh.:evilgrin:

[CLANG]

220. Yeah! WHEW! That was a close one, man!!

[Ignis]

315. It's part of our new "trickle up" strategy.

Unfortunately, I hear it's not pragmatic. :shrug:

[Donnachaidh]

76. your response is disgusting and the reason WHY so many feel betrayed

That's the best YOU can do? Marginalize and denigrate others? What's next? Gonna tell them to *love it or Leave it*? This is a repuke response, and not one that should be thrown by someone who says they are part of the Big Tent party.

[Ignis]

100. Thanks for displaying what is wrong with DU these days.

:thumbsup:

[AngryOldDem]

111. I am so tired of hearing that schtick.

Just how long do you want to give him? He's about to enter the third year of his term. I wasn't expecting a complete and total turnaround from the Bush years, but I did expect to see just a **glimmer** of progress by now, instead of this constant regression that makes me wonder if Bush ever really left office.

[midnight]

291. true.

[peace frog]

304. Exactly

yet we are portrayed as being *disgruntled for not getting our pony* because we expected to see that glimmer of progressive change by now?
Ridiculous. :eyes:

[Hatchling]

323. With the economy the way it is

I'm damn glad I didn't get a pony. I probably would have had to eat the poor thing by now. I sure as hell couldn't afford to feed it!

[tavalon]

112. Well, now, isn't that the nice straw horse

I would recommend coming up with some really good arguments or just stepping out of this one. You really appear to be out of your league.

[emilyg]

120. Every Prez. is left with problems.

[Robeson]

124. You forgot to mention President Palin...

...that's always the fall-back position.

[Bluebear]

135. Step 1: Holler PUMA. Step 2, accuse poster of wanting President Palin. You're doing fine.

[mitchtv]

228. +1

I knew someone would beat me to "President Palin". It's my favorite refrain.

[mitchtv]

230. +1

I knew someone would beat me to "President Palin". It's my favorite refrain.:toast:

[Yuugal]

272. Step 3: Don't forget to mention

Lily Ledbetter :)

[asdjrocky]

191. Have you ever persuaded anyone with that attitude?

Is that how you make friends? You say something totally off base and then come back with a meaningless snark?

[bluethruandthru]

200. Yes, lots of problems haven't surfaced...and I'm hoping that

when they do he'll be more supportive of Democratic values, however, how do you explain his anti-teacher/anti-union/anti-gay positions? I'm also concerned that he seems ready, willing and able to cut social security and other "entitlements" in order to cut the deficit without first cutting the bloated defense budget.
These are things he has CHOSEN to do...he was not forced into these positions by Congress.

[Starry Messenger]

217. Evidently I already did.

Obama is carrying out the Republican agenda in my profession. That wasn't part of the "shitpot", that was his own innovation.

[nashville_brook]

401. best answer!

[bvar22]

238. !!!

[sendero]

278. Most of which...

... he's made worse. No sale.

[humbled_opinion]

297. Well now

At least if the cons were in charge then we could understand why we were escalating war, fattening the insurance corps, attacking privacy and continuing with outsourcing jobs.... but with a fully controlled Democratic Congress and a Democratic President well what more needs to be said NOV 2010 will obvisouly be the turning point, the destruction of the country will not be far off from that.

[rhett o rick]

317. ATTENTION: Telling people to start voting repuke is intellectually dishonest.

You ought to be ashamed. And you call yourself a Democrat.

[pocoloco]

356. What is wrong with people?

My God! He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
Such short memories!

What more would anyone want than peace??

[flyarm]

40. + 10,000!!! You have that right!! eom

[KoKo]

143. I have felt that Obama seems to appease the RW Screechers on Fox News and

seems to be overly sensitive and thin skinned when it comes to attacks by the RW. It's one thing to try to compromise to get things done, but when you only compromise with the Opposition party, Wall Street, Insurance companies and special interest Think Tanks on the Right like Heritage, AEI, CATO, Petersen Foundation.. then there's something very wrong going on. Allowing activists in your own party to be referred to as "Fucking Retards" was the beginning.

His latest speech about teachers needing four-year residencies like physicians is another example of "tough talk" that appeases or appeals to the Right Wing. He doesn't seem like the person who talked to the masses of everyday people at huge rallies saying: "I will Fight for You, Every Day...Change you Can Believe in." He was almost portrayed as a Saint or the Second Coming during the two-year campaign.

What happened? :shrug:

[CLANG]

222. What happened? - He won, now sit down!

:sarcasm: :toast:

[Fearless]

180. +1

[Jakes Progress]

254. The true believers will kill the party.

[Citizen Worker]

279. The problem is that what we have as political choice the left wing and the right wing

of the same bird of prey. And don't think the D's and R's don't play that to the hilt. I have had one democratic campaign manager tell me that directly when I complained that her candidate was woefully ignorant of job loss issue as a result of "free trade." She finally said, "where else are you going to go?" That sums up our options quite succinctly and until we change that we will have more of the same.

[Foo Fighter]

403. That seems to be a rather common sentiment.

From a KO transcript from Nov 19, 2007:

O‘DONNELL: The Democratic calculation in the Senate is always the left has nowhere to go but the Democratic party. I‘ve never been in a meeting in the Senate where there was any other presumption.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21900169

The left is expendable to them. We're irrelevant. And since we don't really matter, well, then I guess it won't matter to them who we vote for either. Sorry but they can't have it both ways.

What this country really needs is a second party. This whole "two wings of the same Corporate party that only serves the top .01%" really isn't cutting it.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LWolf]

32. Please. Search away.

In '07, you'll find me declaring all centrist Dems off my primary voting list. I can't link to it, because it was a sigline, which was changed after the primaries. It pissed off plenty, though, and some will remember. In '07 you'll find me, and many on DU, supporting Dennis Kucinich:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3649440

When DK dropped out, I briefly supported Edwards:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4188296#4194153

Look again after January, when there were only 2 left standing, and you'll find me advocating for a brokered convention, because I didn't support EITHER of the two centrist candidates:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5571577#5571763

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5467771#5468043

After the convention, don't bother to look. In order to comply with DU rules, throughout the GE, I followed my mother's old adage:

"If you can't say something nice..."

[Hell Hath No Fury]

64. For many of us --

we eventaully supported O because he wasn't Hillary Clinton. I am one of those people, and I am now feeling like I am under assualt from this administration.

[NashVegas]

127. We Told You So

[Hell Hath No Fury]

159. Well, I was stuck.

As a Kuch supporter in the CA primary, I was faced with having to support one of two pretty shitty possibilities to be the eventual nominee. I knew what I would get with Hillary and felt we had a 50/50 shot with O.

Lesser of two evils, once again.

[1badjedi]

299. That is the problem.

All we ever get to vote for is lesser evil which still only provides us with evil. Less is not better and obama is proving it's no longer even tolerable.

[CLANG]

223. No you didn't!

:rofl: :spray:

[Jackpine Radical]

174. That was pretty much my story.

I thought Hillary was marginally to the right of Obama. Well, maybe she is, for all I know. That doesn't change the truth of the OP's comments.

[Mnpaul]

277. People didn't want Clinton ver. 2

Instead we got Clinton ver.3

I knew we had been had when the media ignored all the other candidates

[tomp]

66. cheap shot from another obamaphiliac with no argument. nt

[jgraz]

98. I wasn't then, but I am now

She was also right-leaning, corporate-friendly and pro-war, but at least she had a spine.

[tavalon]

110. Oops, the OP obviously forgot one of the oh, so , tired talking points

I was on the fence between Clinton and Obama, they seemed so alike. Then I heard Obama's race speech and I was hooked. Unfortunately, I've since learned that kick ass speeches are his forte, but following through on much that's in them, not so much. He has sucked precisely because he is just like Bill Clinton and we needed an FDR. He said he could be an FDR. He either couldn't or won't.

[bvar22]

129. Hillary or Obama ?

The gray Cadillac, or the blue Cadillac?
Not much difference.
They were almost identical on the issues.
After Edwards dropped out, the "debates" were all "Me Too!"

....with the exception of Health Care Reform.
Obama ridiculed Hillary for the Individual Mandate, and detailed how that was "Wrong for America".
On THAT basis, Obama got my vote.
.
.
.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[laughingliberal]

165. That was what swayed me to Obama, also. That & the public option. Joke was on me, I guess. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

182. "Obama ridiculed Hillary for the Individual Mandate"

please don't bring up facts, it makes certain people cry :)

[Deep13]

157. So what if I did?

Everything I predicted in arguing for her over Obama has turned out to be true (except for the actual election result).

[defendandprotect]

190. We wanted a liberal . . . who would end wars . . . Hillary is DLC . . .and

as we can see from what she's involved with, it isn't exactly peacemaking . . .!!

[sabrina 1]

221. I agree with the OP and I definitely did not want Hillary.

Hillary voted for the Iraq War, as did Edwards so as I promised when they did that, neither was ever on my list of candidates. Edwards' apology did nothing to change my mind.

We need leaders who 'get it right' not who have to apologize later for 'getting it wrong'. Blithely, as if all those deaths and the destruction and grief could be put behind them with an apology.

I supported Obama mainly because of his opposition to the Iraq war as other than that, there was little difference between him and Hillary.

So I think you can cross 'the Hillary' excuse off the list of why people are disappointed, angry and disheartened.

It is not the time it will take to turn this country around. We expect it to take time. It is the direction this administration has taken. They are going in the wrong direction on so many issues. Offshore Drilling as one of the easiest illustrations eg.

And that is why I agree with the OP, despite having previously been an enthusiastic Obama supporter.

[CLANG]

225. Either the wrong direction or at the wrong pace....

[mdmc]

239. HRC would have been the same minus hope

[bobbolink]

259. You would do well to leave the mind-shrinking to others, and learn to hear

the pain that is being expressed to you.

Isn't that what being a liberal is all about?

Or, just keep looking under the furniture... maybe you WILL find those WMDs.

Your choice.

[bobbolink]

260. You would do well to leave the mind-shrinking to others, and learn to hear

the pain that is being expressed to you.

Isn't that what being a liberal is all about?

Or, just keep looking under the furniture... maybe you WILL find those WMDs.

Your choice.

[Lindablue]

271. Let's not start primary wars

Please.

[JDPriestly]

336. No. Obama is better than Hillary would have been.

We wanted Obama without Geithner and Summers, Rahm Emmanuel and the rest of the right-wing crew. We wanted Obama the community organizer, not Obama the corporate tool.

[eridani]

351. Nope. I knew both were corporate Dems. I decided on Obama on the grounds of

--campaign organization. Obama campaigned like it was 2008, and Clinton like it was 1996.

[BlueJac]

390. You are bad and a sad Democrat...

wtf

[joeybee12]

3. But it's only a five-minute prayer!

Tell me the difference between a one-hour prayer by the head of a hate group as opposed to a five-minute prayer by the head of a hate group.

[Iggo]

4. The difference might turn out to be about 4 years less than expected.

[leeroysphitz]

75. We can only hope, but I a creditable primary challenger seems like a long shot. n/t

[Iggo]

99. I tend to think if Obama gets primaried...

...the Republican will win in the General Election.

Fucked up, no?

[leeroysphitz]

101. Fucked up, yes. But if I'm given a choice to primary him I wll regardless of what might

happen in the general.

I'm not voting for mediocre, fence sitters any more.

[Iggo]

107. I'll take a fence sitter over a Republican Admin any day.

I won't like it, but the Republicans have gone insane.

[tavalon]

113. Me too, but like you, I have the personal ethics to at least feel shame for voting for the lesser

of two evils. I know abusive spouse when I see it, and we the liberal part of this way too big tent are the abused spouses.

[nemo137]

359. I'd argue that personal ethics requires you to minimize harm.

And since abstaining or voting for a third party will absolutely do more harm than voting for a Dem, I feel absolutely no fucking shame.

[Steely_Dan]

118. Exactly!

And the Obama Administration knows this. They are relying on you to continue supporting them regardless of what they do because they know that you will NOT vote for a Republican.

-PLA

[bvar22]

242. So what is the "Democratic Wing" of The Party going to do?

What are the "Democratic Wing" of the Party going to do?
Vote for a Republican?
Hahahahahahahahahaha!

[bkozumplik]

188. If repub means rapid slide into oblivion and dem means slowish slide

then lets point this beast downward, step on the gas, and get it over with. Maybe if we hit rock bottom we can get out of this no win game we are stuck in now.
burn it down, and lets start over.

'lesser of two evils' seems to make logical sense, but it never gets us anywhere. Perhaps a rapid decline and dissolution of the status quo through mismanagement is the fastest way out.

[defendandprotect]

196. Why head for "Oblivion" with a Repug or a Dem? Elect a liberal Democrat . . .!!

[ThomCat]

375. Corporate money won't Allow the election of a real liberal democrat.

Anyone who is a real liberal democrat will be starved of campaign cash, and trashed by well funded smear campaigned, deliberately ignored in the corporate owned media as a non-candidate unworthy of discussion except as a constant scandal or political clown, until any possible election falls apart.

:(

[defendandprotect]

406. That's probably 10000% true . . . but we still have to fight for it -- !!

If we keep fighting -- I think we will find a way --

One of the odd things that happens within the right wing is . . .

they're dependent upon political violence and stolen elections --

and they are constantly frightened -- look at how the FBI feared Howard Zinn!

I describe it this way --

Their myths are like a sheet of glass or a mirror --

If even one pebble of truth hits the mirror, it shatters it immeidately!

Keep hurling those pebbles!!

And I think we have to reactive the anti-war movement -- they've been too kind to Obama!!

Democrats in Congress who are fighting for an end to these fake wars need some help!!

I remember how overjoyed I was when I first saw just ONE person in my town with a

NO WAR poster before all of this began -- gradually many of us joined her!!

[defendandprotect]

195. I'll take a liberal over a fence sitter any day --

Let's also toss the DLC - and all corporatism from the Democratic Party!

[Shining Jack]

202. +1 n/t

[defendandprotect]

194. Or, very likely, the Americans will vote for the more liberal candidate . . .!!

Americans by 76%+ wanted MEDICARE FOR ALL --

Do you think they will forget that on election day?

In '06 we put Democrats in office . . . as Pelosi confirmed on video . . .

"to end the war!" --

Do you think we have forotten that?


Wake up!

[Iggo]

218. Yes and Yes.

[CrispyQ]

392. They might win if he doesn't!

:wow:

[Jackpine Radical]

176. 55 minutes.

[CLANG]

226. Impressive! Where did you receive your math degree from?

:hi:

[burnsei sensei]

5. +1

Quote:
What we didn't expect, nor want, was for a supposed set of political allies in the White House to start actually attacking us, nor did we want that "Change" to be for the worse. Yet that is what has happened.
end quote.

My sentiments exactly.

[Catherina]

6. When people equate wanting to stop war murder with *ponies*

I know those people aren't on my team and we have no common ground.

[glitch]

14. No common ground.

That is the harsh truth.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. But..but..killing people is "necessary". And, we have to stay and clean up the bodies.

[TBF]

208. You'd think they'd have enough sense to at least kill the rich people -

then we could divide up the spoils and even things out a little bit. Instead they march half way around the world to kill indiscriminately (including children). Just twisted...

[tomp]

70. agreed. nt

[Deep13]

158. +1

[defendandprotect]

198. Excellent point . . .

it's an effort by the compromisers here to try to minimize the issues --

These wars have to end -- and I'm against anyone continuing to finance them --

whether Obama or Pelosi, Reid or anyone else!!

[zipplewrath]

8. It's what he HAS done

I object less to what he hasn't done, although I object to some of that, than what he HAS chosen to do. If he were just not getting things done, I'd be vastly more positive about him.

[MadHound]

11. God, what a sad statement. Sadder still is that I agree with it.

Cheering for administration apathy and benign neglect, how far we have fallen.

[tavalon]

114. Yep, I expected to have a four year breather to rally our exhausted troops

but they haven't given us a minute, thanks to the DLC.

[defendandprotect]

199. The right wing never sleeps . . . we can't either -- !!

[vi5]

45. +1 (n/t)

[LWolf]

88. +1

[laughingliberal]

164. That's where I'm at. I see the working & middle class further enslaved to corporate interests, now.

[TBF]

214. The more things "change" the more they stay the same -

We do have the bureaucracy and army now, but other than that this piece from 1891 is still relevant today -

"It is well known that the Americans have been striving for 30 years to shake off this yoke, which has become intolerable, and that in spite of all they can do they continue to stink ever deeper in this swamp of corruption. It is precisely in America that we see best how there takes place this process of the state power making itself independent in relation to society, whose mere instrument it was originally intended to be. Here there exists no dynasty, no nobility, no standing army, beyond the few men keeping watch on the Indians, no bureaucracy with permanent posts or the right to pensions. and nevertheless we find here two great gangs of political speculators, who alternately take possession of the state power and exploit it by the most corrupt means and for the most corrupt ends – and the nation is powerless against these two great cartels of politicians, who are ostensibly its servants, but in reality exploit and plunder it."

1891 Introduction by Frederick Engels
On the 20th Anniversary of the Paris Commune

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/civil-war-france/postscript.htm

[jah the baptist]

274. marxist dot org? lol comrade lol nt

[blindpig]

388. Well, jah...

Why don't you argue with the words of Engels instead of where he was linked from? Can ya?

[LaurenG]

9. Thanks

:(

[Tailormyst]

13. Kicked and recommended

[Tansy_Gold]

15. K&R

It will hit the front page and still not send the needed message.



TG, NTY

[treestar]

16. No one is under assault by the current Democratic Administration

Except perhaps white supremacists, nativists, terrorists and homophobes.

[VMI Dem]

18. Homophobes?

:rofl:

[joeybee12]

22. I know...are some people even paying attention????? n/t

[treestar]

35. Oh I'm paying attention. You must be hiding from the right wing

and have avoided them for so long, you think they no longer exist.

You see "homophobes" on DU as if there aren't any real ones out there.

[Bluenorthwest]

62. Are you a gay person, treestar, that you are an expert on

recognizing homophobia? Homopobes are both on DU and in the real world, the micro is the macro. No one but you claimed otherwise.

[treestar]

31. Do you know any real ones?

They see what is happening as an attack on their values.

Right wingers still exist. They didn't disappear.

[obxhead]

69. Right wingers do still exist...

and many are gainfully employed by the current admin too.

[leeroysphitz]

82. +10,000

[laughingliberal]

166. +20,000

[racaulk]

36. Damn, seriously!

Homophobes have been coddled and embraced by this administration, even before Iowa had its 2008 caucus.

[Fearless]

183. +1000

[MadHound]

24. Really?

Public education and teachers are certainly under assault. Try walking in their shoes for awhile. Our civil liberties remain under assault as Obama approves more and more intrusions into what was previously our private lives. Anti-war folks have seen their efforts rewarded with more war, forever and ever amen. And if you're in the middle or working class, well, sky high health insurance premiums are in your future as Obama's unregulated mandated monopoly goes into effect in a few years.

You speak like one who is both comfy and either blinded by your admiration for this administration, or are simply out of touch. But the fact of the matter is that you too will get a harsh wake up call, soon. Perhaps then you will see the truth of the matter. Or you simply might be like those die hard Bush sycophants who continued to support Bush while he continued to raid their pocketbook.:shrug:

Oh, by the way, do you mean "racists" like Sherrod are under attack:rofl:

[treestar]

28. No, teachers are not under attack

That's ridiculous.

Sherrod was reaffirmed.

The wars are being drawn down.

An HCR bill passed.

One does not get a view of reality by straining everything for its most negative view. That's called depression.

[MadHound]

39. So tell me then, if teachers aren't under attack, why does this president praise their mass firing?

If public schools aren't under attack, tell me why has this administration set in place a funding formula that is designed to make private and charter schools the norm in this country? If public education isn't under attack, then why has this president instituted even more testing rather than rejecting the failed premise of NCLB?

Yes, Sherrod was reaffirmed, but she should have never been forced out in the first place. This administration refused to fight for her until it became a PR nightmare for them.

One war, singular, is being drawn down, but it isn't being finished. The other war is being expanded, for no good reason.

Yes, HCR passed, that's the whole problem. This administration gave the insurance industry a mandated monopoly with no price controls for premiums. Thus the middle and working classes are going to start paying more and more to the insurance industry.

I don't strain everything for its most negative view, I look at it in the bright light of reality. Something you should try sometime. It helps to take off the rose colored glasses.

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. +1000

[treestar]

50. Praising their mass firing sounds like an extreme exaggeration

while straining out all positives in order to get the most negative possible view. Depression will do that. It causes the mind to put the worst spin on each action.

Rose colored glasses may be the opposite. But I think I am in the middle, not looking through rose colored glasses, whereas you are looking through black glasses, if one may so put it.

[MadHound]

55. Here, educate yourself

<http://workinprogress.firedoglake.com/2010/03/03/obama-applauds-mass-firing-of-teachers-just-like-when-he-applauded-the-mass-firing-of-banksters-oh-wait/>

I am an unemployed teacher, due in part to Obama and the Democrats' actions regarding education. Chances are quite good that I would be prepping for the coming school year right now, except for the fact that the administration took away education stimulus money this year, and further funding for education was cut because Congressional Dems won't fight for education spending. This isn't depression, this is reality.

[Bluebear]

402. ++

[scentopine]

341. Did you intern at Mayo Clinic or DLC Clinic? You are offering a psychiatric diagnosis

we'd all like to see if you are a real doctor or just a fake one. Please, show us your license to practice.

[QC]

357. The Bill Frist School of Remote Diagnosis. n/t

[scentopine]

362. Ah yes, on-line medical diploma. Wonder if its accepted under HCR -nt

[QC]

363. If not, we can FIX IT LATER!1!!1!! n/t

[scentopine]

364. ...after it metastatizes. Chapter One - "The Pragmatic Physicians Desk Reference". -nt

[scentopine]

343. Remember how soviets and nazis used call dissidents mentally ill....

absolutely disgusting. And they think they are helping Obama. Incredible. They are exactly what is wrong with both washington and especially the democrats who have made over the democratic party into the a new type of Reagan revolution.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

63. So far, you have claimed other posters are

right wing, paid operatives, suffering from depression, and an assortment of other slanders. The tactics you use define that which you defend, you do understand that?

[tavalon]

117. Wow, can I climb your tree

You see all sorts of fantastic things before 9am!

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

204. Must not have a teacher in your family ....

or know any.

[rhett o rick]

318. Saying the wars are being "drawn down" is not the truth. If you have any evidence plez provide. nm

[Forkboy]

33. LOL...yeah, those homophobes are running scared.

[Ignis]

102. They're going to have to start the Underground Bigot Railroad any day now.

Yup...any day now. :eyes:

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

59. Wow, that takes some nerve! The administration is homophobic

and opposed to our equal rights. They have employed some of the most virulent hate preachers for events, they defended the hate speech without apology.

[defendandprotect]

201. And Obama is against gay marriage . . . for whatever reasons ... ???

[flyarm]

60. yeah all those teachers..and retarded Liberals and progressives!!

[leeroysphitz]

78. What color is the sky in your world? n/t

[dionysus]

105. now now, it's easier to have a victim\martyr complex.

:shrug:

[tavalon]

116. Teachers, unions, homosexuals and all of us who don't believe in Domestic Spying have been busy

Let us not forget those who don't believe in bogus wars for bogus reasons and those who believe Guantanamo should now be a distant memory along with other black op sites. Senior citizens are even under assault with the catfood commission. Oh, and the whistleblowers, lets not forget them, they've been quite persecuted.

[laughingliberal]

168. +10,000 nt

[flyarm]

232. + 1 million! eom

[Odin2005]

300. The President would be banned from DU for his homophobic beliefs.

If you do not support allowing same-sex marriages you are a bigot. It's that simple.

[SammyWinstonJack]

17. Rec. nt

[alc]

19. I expected pretty simple things

* transparency
* no hiring lobbyists
* no secret meetings with lobbyists
* no secret deals with pharma
* no signing statements

These are all things that don't depend on the previous administration, or on help from the current congress.

I wanted more but expected to be able to trust the admin. If I trusted them, I could buy that gitmo is hard, ending the wars is hard, the health insurance bill was the best we could get, the financial bill is good, etc. But I don't trust that I know the real influences and motivation of what is going on and I feel that we are not as important as I had hoped.

[tomp]

77. another excellent point.

it IS about trust. frankly, my trust in the politicians/gov't has been non-existent for over 40 years. it will have to be carefully regenerated if it is to ever exist again. obama is NOT being careful and has not won my trust. his embrace of colin powell (which was the obvious signal that he would not go after bush/cheney, inc, and would continue imperialist military policies) was only the first in a long series of blows to any promise of rebuilding that trust.

[daleanime]

140. Nicely said!

:bounce:

[Nite Owl]

309. Yes, it all about trust

and once they have lost that it is nearly impossible to get it back.
This is all so depressing. It's like the whole hope thing was all just some campaign tactic, some catchy phrase. I wonder if they realize what damage has been done.

[lunasun]

314. same here....I got that feeling too!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. "Be patient and trust Obama" is like saying "It's part of God's plan". K&R

Or, "Just shut the fuck up and take your medicine and like it."

[GreenPartyVoter]

47. LOL

[Jakes Progress]

256. I mean after all, who is their god?

[RadiationTherapy]

23. It's a bully tactic to diminish and demean what you care about.

It is intended to make you seem childish by wanting to achieve things you haven't "thought out" the complexities of achieving.

[lib2DaBone]

27. God help us if Obama manages to take our Social Security...

...the dirty dead is going to be done in a late night session of Congress on Friday just before Thanksgiving... after the news cycle has closed.

Most of the delegates will be gone.. but they will hold a special late night vote. (I'm thinking about 11:30 on a Friday night after they order Pizza) Boom. Its a done deal.

The American people.. with their minds on T-Giving and a bleak Christmas.. will not hear of the vote until after the holiday.. by which time it will be too late.

Not only will they grab your Social Security money.. they are going to gut Medicare and whip a national sales tax on the American people.

If you think this is far-fetched fiction... just stay tuned.. film at ll.

[tomp]

79. god help obama. nt

[defendandprotect]

250. Well, we had best be reacting soon . . . I don't even see coverage of this on Olberman,

Schultz or Maddow --

Once it's gone -- it's gone - -

[laughingliberal]

170. Yep. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

29. There ois, in addition to the terrible policies, the outright derision with which we're treated.

We're told we're the "fucking retards"

Not even the repbicans ever called us that.

The president's supporters treat us as if they were repubicans and we're all far left crazies.

As you say, it isn't even the usual benign neglect. It is the palpable disgust we get from the administration and the administration's supporters. What effect can be expected from this apart from a hearty "fuck you" from us?

In many ways, I am more angry with this administration that I was with the bushies. At least with the bushies, the sides were clearly drawn. (Obama supporters, do not misinterpret this statement. Read each word to be SURE your red blind eyes convey the message to your brain.)

Great post.

K&R

[Mimosa]

57. Somebody's always putting us down

I'm watching Obama on the View. Obama has an odd idea about how people think. He is making assumptions as if most people think alike.

[LWolf]

90. +1

[tavalon]

121. see my sig line, compliments of a fellow duer

[inna]

247. +1

[CrispyQ]

393. "Not even the repbicans ever called us that."

:rofl:


Too damned true!

[LWolf]

37. I get it.

But then, I got 2.5 years ago. :(

[MadHound]

44. Oh hell, I got it seventeen years ago, watching Clinton taking the party to the right

And fully embracing corporations uber alles. I was hoping that he was an aberration, but sadly he isn't, and we are now dealing with a Democratic party that works against many of our most cherished interests.

[Mimosa]

58. Same here. n/t

[Desertrose]

89. Ditto. n/t

[Desertrose]

87. Same here, LWolf.

sigh.

[MyNameGoesHere]

49. You forgot puppy and Hillary. But I am sure someone will cover it... oh yeah there it is. n/t

[QC]

51. Still no magic wand, though.

Somebody's falling down on the job.

[WingDinger]

53. Get it straight, you are under attack from the status quo.

As were all the other warriors of humane legality. And OBAMA is under attack from that same status quo.

[MadHound]

56. No, sadly Obama is part of the status quo

It wasn't the status quo that started this assault on public education, it was the Obama administration. It wasn't the status quo that has taken away even more civil liberties, it was the Obama administration. It wasn't the status quo that doubled down, and then doubled down again on the war in Afghanistan, that was the Obama administration.

One must give credit where credit is due. Obama is not some benign player in this drama, he is an active agent, and his actions are doing great harm.

[WingDinger]

61. You got it right the first time. Obama is a portion of the status quo.

Those that stray too far from orthodoxy, wind up planted.

[flyarm]

65. absolutely..You nailed it! Thanks..eom

[katandmoon]

54. K&R

[jah the baptist]

67. yawn nt

[tomp]

73. how eloquent. nt

[jah the baptist]

80. belch nt

[MadHound]

81. A reply worthy of one whose life and career aren't under assault

It is apparent that you are not an educator, member of the LGBT community, unemployed, believe in civil liberties or give a damn about the war. Such a cavalier attitude cannot be explained otherwise.

In other words you're doing just fine, so screw the rest of us. Stay classy.

[jah the baptist]

84. yargle bargle nt

[MadHound]

86. Keep staying classy, and keep proving my point. n/t

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadHound]

96. Do you have any empathy?

Apparently not, nor intelligence either since my point is going right over your head.

Let me explain this to you in simply terms, so perhaps even you can get it.

I am a teacher. Under this administration's watch I find my career, my livelihood, my life under assault by this administration. Not only am I currently unable to find a job teaching, due to the pulling of stimulus funds by this administration, but when I do find a job I will have to deal with the fact that Obama and Duncan are going to be continuing another failed Bush policy, namely NCLB and more and more testing. We've already lost one generation due to Bush and NCLB, do you want to lose more.

Furthermore, Obama is deliberately trying to privatize public education. States that are underfunded for education during this recession are turning to the federal government for education funding. Yet Obama is forcing states to compete for this funding, and the rules of that competition are that states have to open their districts to unlimited private and charter schools. Furthermore, they have to agree to even more testing, merit based pay based on those tests, and even more intrusive, one size fits all curriculum.

Furthermore, I am finding my civil liberties under assault (as are yours, whether you know or care about it). Bush era outrages are becoming normalized, and even more egregious inroads are being made into our privacy by this administration.

Not to mention the wars currently going on. In Iraq, we're going to keep a low level training force in there for at least a year or more, and in Afghanistan, well, apparently we're in there for the long haul. As our country suffers from the worst recession since the Great Depression, as our infrastructure crumbles, as jobs dry up, we continue to spend more and more of our money, resources and lives on a war we can't win. I don't know about you, but I would prefer not to take the Soviet Union method of ending our empire.

So, my question to you is do you even care about any of this? Or are you happy to simply close your ears to all the suffering and blindly chant hosannas to Obama? If you are, well don't blame me when you wake up to find our country in the toilet, I tried to warn you.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

130. how old are you?

[Bluebear]

138. ...and what was his former DU name?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Forkboy]

149. Yep.

[laughingliberal]

181. I'm betting it was one of the ones commonly known by initials. nt

[jah the baptist]

197. wow

just


wow

you are really so into this?

again

wow

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LaurenG]

210. Stop - you're just spamming the board

Do you have ANYTHING at all but stupid words, like blah and belch. Is that really all you have? :rofl:

[flyarm]

234. perhaps a NEW HIRE? Hasn't gotten the points to talk about or the maturity

to hide ignorance yet?

[Bluebear]

295. "Yo Mamma"?? hahahaha it's a revival of "What's Happening" from the 70's!

[Forkboy]

319. "Yo, Rog!!!!"

I loved that show. :D

[laughingliberal]

177. I often think those who defend all this aren't the ones wondering if they will ever have another..

job, home, or enough food next week. It's all just one big sporting event for those whose lives have not been brought down by the right wing economic policies of these past 30 years-those who think activism is manning the phone banks while watching their 401k's grow.

[Ignis]

103. You've made quite an impression on many DUers in a short time.

[Bluebear]

137. Yes, indeed. From day one.

[Vinca]

71. I didn't want a pony or a unicorn, but it appears I'll be getting cat food.

[laughingliberal]

179. +1 nt

[defendandprotect]

251. Don't see much discussion of that going on here or Olberman, Schultz, Maddow????

Am I missing it?

Then again, many be the new rules are intended to cover that hitting the fan?

[90-percent]

72. My fervent hope

I hope and pray that in these times we could at least end up with President and Administration as left wing and progressive and constitution lovin' as that of:

RICHARD M. NIXON

[femrap]

147. I

:rofl: so I don't :cry:

After we got rid of Nixon, I was so happy. I thought we had made things right. Who ever thought that people in an Administration wouldn't respond to a subpoena?????

We are NO longer a country of laws. We have no civil rights. WASF.

[area51]

74. I think it's not a case where some on DU don't get it,

it's that some on DU have a vested interest in attacking liberals and in remaking the democratic party into the republican party-lite.

[MadHound]

83. Could be very well correct,

As sad as that concept is.

[tomp]

85. i agree.

many of the "pony" people are most likely dem party sychophants and/or paid operatives of the dlc. the rest are lemmings.

[PassingFair]

275. Correction, not lemmings.

Woodchucks, apparently.

[Individualist]

91. Exactly!

[Steely_Dan]

131. That Is Frightening...

Comments like "Maybe you should get some new talking points from the Central Committee" are evidence that the "new" Dems are attacking the very principles that have made our party, the party of the people. Sadly, I agree with you.

-PLA

[nashville_brook]

144. their aggressive tone and repetitiveness support your hypothesis.

[laughingliberal]

184. Yep. Tactics straight out of the RW noise machine. nt

[nashville_brook]

145. their aggressive tone and repetitiveness support your hypothesis.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

207. +1

[flyarm]

237. I vote ..vested interest!! But as we saw with many of the former admins vested folks..

they took a fucking beating..
funny thing..when people sell out..they THINK they are immune ..then they get the knife in the back and act surprised when they are bleeding to death!

[90-percent]

93. additionally

The two perpetual wars America is conducting in the 21st Century are ironic. They were founded in the name of FIGHTING TERRORISM. Then we walked away from Afghanistan early on when we had a real chance of getting Osama B.L., to enter the distraction of Iraq. We have nuked our reputation as a defender of human rights – by torture and deliberate killing of innocents, our best and brightest have sacrificed for apparently nothing, we are conducting the longest war in American history for nothing, and, in the end, we turned Iraq and Afghanistan into ANTI AMERICAN TERRORIST FACTORIES! All those trillions of dollars (or is it merely a little more than one trillion, an amount the Pentagon has been proven to have lost just by sloppy accounting?) so we grow a new generation of people that hate America and can hold a grudge for THOUSANDS OF YEARS!

Here's a bit from the late comedian Bill Hicks that explains one possibility for Obama's servitude to the corporations at the expense of we the people:

“I have this feeling man, ’cause you know, it’s just a handful of people who run everything, you know … that’s true, it’s provable. It’s not … I’m not a f**king conspiracy nut, it’s provable. A handful, a very small elite, run and own these corporations, which include the mainstream media. I have this feeling that whoever is elected president, like Clinton was, no matter what you promise on the campaign trail – blah, blah, blah – when you win, you go into this smoke-filled room with the twelve industrialist capitalist scum-f**ks who got you in there. And you’re in this smoky room, and this little film screen comes down … and a big guy with a cigar goes, “Roll the film.” And it’s a shot of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you’ve never seen before … that looks suspiciously like it’s from the grassy knoll. And then the screen goes up and the lights come up, and they go to the new president, “Any questions?” “Er, just what my agenda is.” “First we bomb Baghdad.” “You got it…”

from this post;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8805842&mesg_id=8807288


Lastly, I can never get a good answer on the fundamental question: ARE WE AT LEAST EXTRACTING THE OIL IN IRAQ, which so many think is the real reason for the whole fiasco in the first place? I suspect, knowing the Bush/Cheney crime-against-humanity caliber of incompetence, we didn’t even end up with the FUCKING OIL!

Oh, I think GWB finally did get his wet dream of procuring one of Saddam’s pearl handled revolvers to display on his desk. War widows and mothers, this is what your loved ones gave their lives for. Maybe GWB will let you pet it some day down at his library of the illiterates.

-90% Jimmy

[LWolf]

94. I didn't need a pony.

I've already got 3 of them, and I'm headed out to play with them now.

I would have liked to be able to continue to afford hay for them. I value them, and their well-being, more than I do the hot air of pony-haters.

[raouldukelives]

95. k&r nt

[unapatriciated]

97. K&R

I didn't expect a pony either and I sure as hell didn't expect him to push to extend bad policies from the previous administration.
I will be watching in January to see if they extend the b$#% tax cuts.

I wanted some change now I will settle for "benign neglect".

[Ignis]

106. K&R. "If you are anti-war, nobody is listening to you."

Sad but true. Thanks for the depressing, sobering OP.

[defendandprotect]

252. Look at DU and how few "end the war" threads are up -- !!!

[Ignis]

270. Sad but true. But what's even more disturbing, to me...

...is how stridently, condescendingly, and frequently peace activists are shouted down for having the gall to wanting to end these bullshit wars and bring our troops home.

And now we're told that arguing against the recent $33 billion war funding bill equates to not supporting the troops.

:argh:

[defendandprotect]

381. Maybe we have to start calling it the DU/DLC . . . odd that the Dems are supporting war, isn't it?

There was a great thread recently by someone posing the various ironies

of the Dems supporting war -- at all!!

And a number of other things -- I saved it but at the moment can't find it --

If I do later -- I'll try to add it to this post --

:)

[defendandprotect]

253. dupe

[newtothegame]

108. Most DU'ers were too busy buying their Obama collector's plates and t-shirts to worry about such...

trivial matters as progressive politics.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

119. touche

[scentopine]

344. Exactly. Spot on. -nt

[on point]

109. We were expecting them to fight for us, not against us.

I am practical, I understand theneed for compromiseand working over the long term to accomplish things.

What I don't want to see is our positions thrown out before the discussion even begins, and to have us attacked for not supporting the right wing or far right wing positions.

I am not willing to be pissed on, and told it is rain.

[emilyg]

123. Amen.

[Capitalocracy]

122. We didn't want a pony, we just wanted a donkey!

And goddammit, with our votes and with the very hard work of a lot of you here, we BOUGHT one.

I want to point something out here. Has anybody else noticed something about Obama, that the only time he really seems angry, really angry, not just trying to look angry or refudiating some interest or talking point calmly, is when he gets challenged by progressives?

The only time he releases the kraken, so to speak, is on progressives. On Bill Halter. On anyone who says hey, when are you going to stop DADT? Whenever he talks about something from the right wing he doesn't agree with, he just says yeah, uh, that's really bad, we've got to, uhm, do something about that.... And his voice just trails off...

[Bluebear]

136. +

[BzaDem]

126. Whether or not you want a pony is irrelevant. What is relevant is the distance between what you want

and the possible.

You have a point with regards to civil liberties/war issues: Obama clearly holds a different opinion on what he thinks is the right policy than you do. (Though I don't think he was at all misleading in his campaign; he is more or less governing as his record and statements indicated on this front.)

Where you don't have a point is on domestic issues. You could want a very reasonable-sounding policy, but if it has no chance of passing Congress, blaming Obama for it is wrong whether or not it can be considered "a pony."

[Skidmore]

128. +1

Thank you.

The amount of tantrumming on DU these days is staggering and really gets old. Sometimes people need to look at the terrain.

[Steely_Dan]

133. Here's The Deal...

It's called LEADERSHIP. Mr. Obama has the Bully Pulpit and the Office of the President.

[BzaDem]

156. And the Bully Pulpit and the Office of the President have 0 votes in Congress.

The Congresspersons in Republican districts needed to vote for initiatives at this point have a better political case for openly defying the President, not supporting him.

Why is this so hard to understand???

At this point, the "bully pulpit" isn't just not very consequential for passing legislation -- it is completely irrelevant. People who bring it up as if it is some reason why Obama should be more successful with Congress are complete fools.

[defendandprotect]

258. Whether Dems are the minority or the majority they are somehow powerless . . .!!!

Shall we keep winking at that reality --

or start understanding the truth of it?

[BzaDem]

332. Why is that at all surprising?

It takes 60 votes to pass legislation. That means it takes 60 progressive votes to pass sufficiently progressive legislation. A majority means very little. 59 is essentially the same as 0.

[defendandprotect]

407. It's not "surprising" ... it's suspicious . . .

When Republicans are the minority, are they not afflicted by the same 60 vote logic?

Where are the Democrats then?

I've watched over decades what Democrats do -- and quite remember Sen. George Mitchell

simply turning the entire Senate over to Sen. Bob Dole!!

Having Democrats in the majority is pretty much the equivalent of "0" -- !!

[eridani]

385. Like hell is isn't Reagan often got pretty good results when he asked his supporters--

--to bug their congresscritters until they supported his agenda.

[MadHound]

134. Excuse me, but a lot of what I'm talking about doesn't even go through Congress

Let's take Obama and Duncan's war on public education. None of that, the RTTT, the extension and widening of NCLB type testing, Obama's praise for mass firings, none of that has anything to do with Congress.

Likewise, being CinC means that none of this war expansion had anything to do with Congress.

Likewise, his further assault on our civil liberties has nothing to do with Congress.



But even if any of this did have something to do with Congress, at least part of the blame would still lie with Obama. Because one of the skills a president has to have is the ability to get his agenda through Congress. LBJ was a master of this, as have many 'Pugs. But apparently Obama simply cannot do this, and thus he is becoming a weak and ineffectual leader.

But since none of what I mentioned above has anything to do with Congress, well then I guess I can add the word "malicious" to my list of adjectives describing this president. Being a teacher, I feel that maliciousness coming from this administration on a regular basis.

[BzaDem]

160. "Because one of the skills a president has to have is the ability to get his agenda through Congress

Bullshit. Complete bullshit. Why anyone takes this argument the least bit seriously is beyond me. Do you blame Clinton for not getting his bills through a Republican Congress?

LBJ was successful because the filibuster was not used to block things like Medicare. With majorities favoring what you want, presidents get what they want. With majorities opposing a policy (like Single Payer), the President would not get it.

The composition of Congress is what determines what passes Congress. Not "presidential leadership," not "the bully pulpit," and not magic unicorn dust.

[defendandprotect]

263. 76%+ of Americans wanted government run health care -- public option --

"Because one of the skills a president has to have is the ability to get his

agenda through Congress

And a lot of that "skill" comes from motivating the public --

Does the public need to be "motivated" to want an end to these wars?

There was from the beginning and there is now a huge anti-war movement -- everyone is

against these wars and continuing them -- and refinancing them.

Pelosi herself, day after '06 election -- "Democrats were elected to end the war!"

That's on video --


And then there is all of this which another poster has outlined for you --


Let's take Obama and Duncan's war on public education. None of that, the RTTT, the extension and widening of NCLB type testing, Obama's praise for mass firings, none of that has anything to do with Congress.

Likewise, being CinC means that none of this war expansion had anything to do with Congress.

Likewise, his further assault on our civil liberties has nothing to do with Congress.

NONE of that requires any action by Congress -- though it would be nice to Democrats rise up

and begin to protect public education with some new legislation countering what Obama/Duncan

are doing!!

[MadHound]

293. Please stop, your historical ignorance is embarassing

While you're taking this pause, please educate yourself about the 1964 Civil Rights Act. A filibuster that was seventeen days long. What, you weren't paying attention when the national eulogy for Byrd was going on?

LBJ punished Byrd and the others in the press, and gee, the Civil Rights Act was passed. Amazing how those things work:eyes:

[BzaDem]

329. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about with respect to the civil rights act.

After a long filibuster, Mansfield changed the bill to gain enough votes to cut off the filibuster. They watered down the regulation of private business. Once the bill was changed, it had over 67 votes to invoke closure. Byrd and others' delaying tactics at that point were just tactics. They could not have possibly prevented the bill prom passing. They would have just delayed passage somewhat.

So your example entirely supports what I am saying. When a bill can't get cloture, the bill is CHANGED. Just like in HCR. If presidential leadership is at all relevant, it is knowing when and how to change the bill to get enough votes for cloture and passage.

It is ironic that you call me historically ignorant when your own historical example actually shows exactly what I am saying.

[MadHound]

365. Really now, you're embarassing yourself

The "change" you're referring to was the addition of language to the EEOC section, most of it small changes in language, including the inclusion of the word "sex" as a group that couldn't be discriminated against.

Some change, as opposed to what the Democrats and the Obama administration changed in HCR, namely taking out the public option, among other things.

Your example is laughable, as is your knowledge base.

[BzaDem]

369. Good. At least we're getting somewhere. You finally admit that bills pass when they are changed.

As opposed to the application of unicorn magic from the "bully pulpit."

Now you just need to apply it to the current situation.

[MadHound]

374. Nice way to twist my words and sentiments,

But hey, keep arguing the limitations of the party, and yourself, and pretty soon, those limitation do indeed become yours.

The fact that you consider the addition of a few, and I mean a few, words to the EEOC section of the Civil Rights Act to the wholesale butcher job that was the HCR compromise again simply goes to show up and show off your ignorance.

And if you honestly think that the bully pulpit doesn't have an effect, well, again, you're simply showing the length and breadth of that historical ignorance of yours.

[GOTV]

330. So what was the final vote on single payer? Or on cloture for that matter?

I mean you can't say you even tried if you didn't ask for a vote.

What was the final vote on the public option?

[BzaDem]

334. 56 senators supported the public option. Probably fewer than 10 supported single payer.

They often do not hold votes on bills that have negligible support (like Single Payer). I don't know why this is surprising to you.

While they didn't have a standalone vote on the public option, it was clear that 56 senators supported the opt out, level playing field option and that 4 didn't. They couldn't have a standalone vote on it because it was already in the bill until Dec 19th, and having a vote after that would have pushed final passage past Christmas and into the New Year, after Scott Brown got elected.

[GOTV]

337. I'm sure they at least debated it for a long time then and didn't just take it off the table ...

... from the very beginning. I mean they must have and that's how they knew that no more than 10 Senators would support it.

[laughingliberal]

185. Yeah? The deep audit of the Fed had huge bipartisan support in both houses of Congress.

The administration burned those phone lines up defeating it.

That Obama as victim of Congress dog don't hunt.

[defendandprotect]

264. Ouch -- !! I thought audit of FED was approved ??? Wow--!!

Once again we see who Obama is working to protect --

and who Obama is not protecting!!

[laughingliberal]

281. A very watered down version of just the 'emergency lending' done since 2007.

Not the deep audit originally in the Senate bill. IOW, we only get to see what they want us to see.

[defendandprotect]

379. And Obama turned this around -- bailed out the FED . . .!!! Wow!!

[GOTV]

338. I'll bet the administration tried very hard ...

... not to make those phone calls lobbying against change.

[defendandprotect]

255. 76%+ of the public wanted a government run health care plan -- BRIBERY was the barrier to it -- !!

Putting Baucus in charge of health care reform was putting the fox in charge

of the chicken coop --

Great if you want to debate, but let's at least be frank about what's going on --

[BzaDem]

335. The public option was put BACK IN THE BILL after it left Baucus' committee.

It remained in the bill until Lieberman refused to vote for the bill with a PO.

[defendandprotect]

380. Any chance that Baucus was depending on Lieberman to defeat it?

By all accounts Lieberman became the most powerful member of our government --

more powerful even than Obama!!

And all believable -- !!


Of course, corporate bribery is having no effect on our government officials -- !!



:eyes:

[eridani]

384. So explain why he armtwisted Kucinich but not Liebermann on HCR n/t

[uponit7771]

395. yeap +1

[Hydra]

132. They don't even seem to know what the "Pony" is

Or how important it is that we get real, positive change in place.

Candidate Obama laid it out in plain terms why all of this was not a "pony" or a "magic wand"- that it was sensible, doable, and necessary.

Where did Candidate Obama go?

[Kurovski]

141. I have an inner pony who is with me always.

[geek tragedy]

146. You are not 'under assault' by the Obama administration.

Seriously, anyone at DU who believes that is delusional.

[MadHound]

161. Spoken like one who isn't in the field of education

Let me explain a few things to you, since you apparently either don't know the circumstances, or simply don't care.

I am a teacher, yet I can't find a job in teaching because Obama has pulled the stimulus funds for education after only a year. This means that school districts across the country are firing teachers and cutting education programs due to lack of funding.

Even if I do manage to find a teaching job, I will be forced by federal mandate to engage in more standardized testing, though the vast majority of education experts agree that such standardized testing does a horrible disservice to children, resulting in even poorer results. We've already lost one generation due to the Bush era, NCLB testing, and we are looking at losing another generation due to Obama era testing.

Furthermore, the Obama administration has set in motion, via the cynical Race To The Top program, the destruction of public education. RTTT forces every state who takes such funds to open up their state to unlimited private and charter schools. It also opens the floodgates of standardized teaching, and worse, merit based pay that is based on those tests.

That is in the one area of education. This assault is also being carried out in other areas, like civil liberties, and oh, let's not forget those illegal, immoral wars that are draining this country of money, lives and resources.

If you don't think that we're under assault by this administration, then you simply haven't been paying attention.

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

285. I haven't heard one teabagger say public education is under assault from this administration. nt

[MadHound]

294. What, the Teabaggers are stating that public education is under attack?

I don't think so, but then again I don't hang out with them so I'll defer to your vast experience in these matters.

[Nite Owl]

312. Why do you assume he or any of us

hate the President? Who said that, only you.
We all want the best for our country and we all want to have a dem President. Point is he isn't acting much like a dem President, he isn't the person who campaigned in '08. He didn't call the people who were out there campaigning for him 'fuckin' retards'. He seemed to be a fighter, someone who would fight for all of us and unless you have been in some other world he hasn't be that at all. We can hope for things to get better but there comes a time when things aren't getting done that it is all just too depressing. Leadership is lacking and either he isn't capable of leading or doesn't want to.

[defendandprotect]

265. Agree with you 1000% . . . and more !!

This should probably be a PM . . . but it's a huge union . . .

why didn't teachers unite to strike against renewal of the LNCB testing, etal??

Was it even possible to think about that?

[shireen]

349. +1

[montanto]

162. If this is a quibble over the meaning of assault, sure.

If you are a member of one of the groups that the administration is willing to sacrifice to achieve some of its ill considered ends, then you may "feel" as though you are being assaulted when you are merely being used for your vote and then having your pleas for help ignored. "Thanks for your vote, and fuck you": That's what some of us are hearing. "Fuck you" is not an "assault," it's true, it's just "fuck you," which makes some of us feel a little wistful.

[geek tragedy]

213. Okay, Obama's the enemy. Vote RNC in 2012. nt

[montanto]

224. Well played sir! n/t

[flyarm]

240. dang..it's that chess game again! eom

[defendandprotect]

266. "Your country - love it or leave it" . . . ?? We need to move Obama and Dems to the left . .. or

find a new Democratic candidate in 2012 --

[Greyhound]

148. If you look at this thread, you see a microcosm of The Party. A small number of vocal distracting

trash-talkers spewing the same pointless rhetoric and derision who's main purpose and value lies in getting people to just walk away. They drown out discussion and derail threads over and over until reasonable people decide it's not worth the time to wade through it to get at the point.

Then, they set up the narrative to lay the blame on their victims after their strategy fails again (failure is based on the purported claims of what they want to accomplish).

[laughingliberal]

186. +1000 nt

[Orsino]

150. What we *need* is an entire herd of horses, not just a fucking pony.

What we get is a prairie full of horseshit.

[harun]

151. Great post.

[OhioChick]

155. Well said n/t

[democrank]

167. Hang in there, MadHound.

Here`s my position....

I simply laugh when I read all this "You want a pony" or "You want everything right now" bullshit. Those DUers can shuffle down the middle of the road and stay there for all I care. They weren`t any help yesterday and they won`t be any help tomorrow. Count on it. Although they yapped about these policies under Junior Bush, they fully support them now. Why? It`s about the "D"....any "D". Issues don`t matter. That`s how they can tell gay DUers that Obama is doing EVERYTHING HE CAN. That`s how they can tell DUers will friends aand family in Iraq and Afghanistan that we just can`t leave yet. It`s how they can scoff at the concerns of unemployed teachers. Ignore them. You`ll thank yourself some day.

Stick to your principles and don`t expect support from the don`t-make-waves folks. They wouldn`t have marched with me during the Vietnam War or the Civil Rights Movement. It would have been way too controversial for them to stand up for something that matters.

~PEACE~

[Autumn]

229. Nice post. Middle of

the road has nothing but yellow stripes and dead armadillos. Truth.

[bvar22]

244. Please allow me to illustrate.

[defendandprotect]

267. I also love Howard Zinn on that -- "You can't be neutral on a moving train" -- !!

[Autumn]

339. LOL Thank you. Someday I

will have to get my Grandson to show me how to post pictures.

[NorthCarolina]

172. The DLC New Dems have no use for Liberals in any capacity. Liberals are anti-corporatist

and therefore they must be banished. The DLC has worked too hard, including instituting a new more publicly palatable moniker "New Dems", to rid the Democrats of it's populist contingent, to concede any ground now.

[defendandprotect]

268. +1000% . . . . and if we're really, really dumb, we'll let the DLC take total control of party ...

[NorthCarolina]

316. It's a pretty safe bet that the DLC already controls the party.

They even control the tone of DU.

[defendandprotect]

378. Can't argue with you there --

in either respect . . .

DU/DLC --

Obama having eloped into the White House with Emmanuel I think made that fairly clear --

but I don't think they've yet cowed liberal/progressive Democrats -- and that's a problem

for them.

Certainly "new rules" here will seem aimed at quashing what I expect will be very harsh comments

re The Cat Food Commission -- !!

Basically, I think we have to keep getting louder and louder and more in Obama's face --

and the DLC's face -- and keep supporting more liberal Democrats --

I think we need a new one in 2012!!

:)

[NorthCarolina]

391. I agree,

especially "I think we need a new one in 2012".

[awoke_in_2003]

173. and he hasn't done one damn thing

about the patriot act. In fact, the FBI is being given even more power for snooping through peoples email. I really wish I knew which constitution he gave lectures about, because it couldn't have been ours.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

212. Was thinking to add something about this

but ya beat me to it. Can't believe that I made it this far down the thread, puke bucket was nearby though.

[awoke_in_2003]

307. It is funny...

we used to scream when Bush pulled this kind of shit, but not now. It is amazing the turnaround I have seen. I live in Texas, so I am surrounded by pukes. All the years of Bush running up deficits, nary a word was said. Of course, we bitched about it. Now we have a democratic president- we are silent on the deficit and the pukes are sceaming. I swear, the scene in DC is nothing but a sideshow. The elites get what they want no matter who is in control, and they get away with it because we are too caught up in backing our guy and hating the other party (works from the puke direction, too).

[truedelphi]

187. Great Post. K & R. Actually

One addition to what you wrote - if you are anti war, and you release documents that spell out some important considerations regarding the endless war in Afghanistan, this Administration is not just against you, but is willing to jail you.

Meanwhile Bush/Rove/Cheney go free.

[slay]

189. I do indeed get it

thanks for putting it out there in a well thought out manner. i had high hopes for Obama, campaigned for him, put up posters, handed out fliers, put up yard signs, etc. i am however a relatively intelligent liberal and no amount of pony insults or pro-status quo propaganda will change the facts that everything you said above is true. i feel very betrayed by his administration at this point, and by the man himself for not setting a clear agenda to take us out of this mess. Thanks again for posting this, it needed to be said.

[me b zola]

193. Recommended n/t

[Name removed]

203. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

211. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Autumn Colors]

206. & this is why the DSCC person who called me got an earful today

Told him not to bother wasting his breath as I was no longer donating to the party as a whole and would only be donating to individual candidates who are deserving of what little money I have to give. Told him to pass that on and that they wouldn't be getting one more cent from me unless Democrats start acting like Democrats instead of Republican-Lite.

[flyarm]

241. every month when they call me I give them that speech.only I get very graphic..

last month I finally told them take me off their list..I am finished with them..

They haven't called in at leat 3 weeks now..I wonder if I will get the call in Aug?

Last call the lady finally clicked off..quietly..as I screamed!

[Bryn]

209. I am with you.

When Bill Halter lost to Blanche Lincoln in the runoff, some anonymous White House idiot (Rahm?) bashed labor and liberals for daring to challenge the will of the White House, Bill Clinton, and sacred incumbency by backing Halter. Said all the millions liberals and labour donated to Halter were "pissed away."

I was disgusted by the whole thing ... Bill Clinton coming to back Blanche, Obama gave his support for her via radio. Voting Polls were reduced from 42 to just 2 in Hot Springs, AR ... Bill Halter's stronghold and where Blanche's unpopular. It was fixed by Democratic Party. I saw the whole thing (I live here!). That's when I lost respect/loyalty/trust for the "new" Democratic Party. I don't like the direction they're heading now. The Democratic Party is no longer same one I grew up with.

I know exactly what you're talking about.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

215. Awesome post. K & R nt

[TBF]

216. K&R nt

[NodQuestion]

227. hyperbole...

We are not under assault from the white house. There may be disagreements, but to say we are under assault is a joke. I knew exactly what I was getting, which is why went off to bum fuck NC to work for the campaign.

What YOU don't understand is that this is a war. Republican success is the culmination of strict ideology, pitch perfect marketing, and rabid grass rots: all this things that delivered for Obama in 08. The abandonment of these principles has lead to what we are in now.

There is no cohesive message and the grass roots turned off after a big battle. The other side still is rabid, still is on the top of its game, and STILL SHOWS UP. They're in his face on everything and we provide no backup. That's not politics or change. Change isn't writing a blog complaining, it's getting out there, writing to your congressman, and making calls / canvassing. You sunshine democrats think you can write a bunch of trite post and that that will magically change everything.

Then when you don't get your way after you didn't even bother to get off your couch to oppose a the worst opposition democrats have ever had, you get mad that they don't get 100% of what you want, even when they deliver 90%. You want victories, then get on the battlefield. You want to whine and talk about sitting elections out, then don't be surprised when progressives get locked out under a red house of republicans.

This is a war, make no mistake, for the heart and soul of this country and change requires heavy lifting from them and support from us.

This isn't to excuse watered down legislation or the numerous disagreements I have with the president on issues, but to personally acknowledge the role you and I and all of us have in implementing these changes.

When republicans want to change something, they pull the level and move every sector of the conservative movement. We didn't even show up when the public option needed us, when congressmen were getting beat up in town halls. We get mad that progressive candidates lose elections that are inherently local, even when they campaign snottily, instead of figuring out how to apply our values to that locality.

We demand without contributing and get angry when they falter, throwing the hundreds in congress literally against thousands of protesters went wont confront. When they ask for a pedestal we tell them to reach instead of basically giving them a hand. And now in their twilight hour having gained numerous accomplishments that will put them in history book, or own selfish pride and need for revenge / political points will cost them the house.

This is war and it's ugly and sometimes you have to make tough decisions, but the foot soldiers can't even get a lot of you from behind computers and snide remarks into the good fight. What a joke.

This party is fundamentally unprepared to do what is necessary to change the country because WE are unprepared to put all that we have, everything that we can mystery, into the great cause laid before us. You want to when, then prepare for the fight of your life, because nothing less will alter the fabric of this country and nothing less will bring is center left, back to reason and rationality, again. Put down the mouse and go be hero in an office somewhere, write a letter to your rep, talk to a neighbor, or something else to get into the good fight.

[laughingliberal]

233. We were providing backup for HIS plan for a public option-the one he forgot he campaigned on...

and HIS right hand man called us 'fucking retarded' for it. President Obama has plenty of backup for good policies. Reaganesque, working/middle class destroying economic policy and corporate slavery for the people? Not so much.

This is not about US not having his back. We have his back when his policies are good.

[NodQuestion]

236. please

this isn't just about Obama and showing up after the right savaged the plan to death isn't having anyone's back. There's more he and the congress could have done, but progressives didn't get into the mix until public opinion had already turned on the Public Option.

Also can you extrapolate on the corporate slavery and Reagan policies? I'm not saying you're wrong, I may just not be paying close enough attention. DO you have an example?

[laughingliberal]

246. Yep! In August, after 4 committees had passed good plans & teabaggers were raging, public support...

for the PO was soaring and it kept soaring eventually reaching over 60% support. Rahm didn't like that. :(

Nothing in the financial reform bill to break up TBTF. The WH lobbied against that.

No deep audit of the Fed. The White House lobbied against that. After all, can't have the American people seeing that $4.6 trillion of their money that was given to the fat cats with no strings attached.

Lackadaisical, if any, support for card check which could put workers back on the road to some power in the workplace.

More 'free trade' policies being touted by WH in order to ship more of our jobs out.

Americans now enslaved as far as they eye can see to the for profit health insurance companies, needing their employer sponsored benefits more than ever (read more trapped in a job they'd like to leave more than ever).

Education reform moving towards more privatization of our school system, with public money, of course (for God's sake, Newt Gingrich supports their plans).

'Limited resources' for a jobs' program.

HAMP hands the banksters $75 billion more for the foreclosure crisis with no requirements that they, actually, help anyone.

Creates the Cat Food Commission by executive order so our FICA can be turned over to WS after cutting our benefits & requiring us to slave a few more years at our jobs.

Yeah, I'm not impressed, so far.

[NodQuestion]

261. you definitely make some good points

The public Option was an amorphous shapeless policy with no attempt to sell it. Rahm didn't just roll up and kill it, it was killed by not even remotely being articulated.

Your dead on on financial legislation

On card check, there's bigger fish and it isn't his thing. That's not to say he couldn't do something, but you can't make up 10 dem senators saying no (including Dianne Fienstien). Some things really are about counting to 60. The debate got sidetracked around july 2009...as if some huge piece of legislation distracted people.

The white houses inability to manipulate tax breaks and subsidies to enforce hiring Americans is kind of lame, but American business and we the consumer had a heavier hand in this than the white house ever had. We buy ipods made in sweatshops, shit on american cars even when they win awards, and take pretty good care to avoid buying american all by ourselves. The white house needs to create new sectors, like green energy, to replace the obs being lost. Also we're just catching up, Ohio was losing millions of jobs in 2004, because once again we treat American manufacturing like a joke but wonder why jobs go overseas.

ON health, yeah people are trapped, but hopefully exchanges will allow them to choose a better plan and get their kids on their longer.

Private education is a nightmare in waiting, but until we on a local level our willing to confront how we pay for public education (notably the disparity in money between rich and poor neighborhoods and that correlation to school quality) and crime, then we can't expect much. Have to fix the ills Harlem Children's zone style before you see and education revolution.

recession's suck and the mob doesn't want spending, sorry on the jobs programs. Reds are effective at getting their way on this.

on CFC: don't let the senate off the hook: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/67293-sens-squeeze-speaker-over-commission

you may not be impressed, but you shouldn't be downright hostile.

[laughingliberal]

273. ...

"ON health, yeah people are trapped, but hopefully exchanges will allow them to choose a better plan and get their kids on their longer. "

No cost controls and no competition. It is just as unaffordable for the middle class as it ever was. Subsidies for those less well off are great but, again, they're spending our money to subsidize it and did nothing to try to get us more value for our money. It's, essentially, a bailout of the insurance industry. And they took $500 billion out of Medicare, setting us up for more screaming about the insolvency of the Medicare program so they can push to privatize it.

"On card check, there's bigger fish and it isn't his thing."

Sure isn't his thing. I'm guessing he's not wondering how to feed his kids on his wages.

"The white houses inability to manipulate tax breaks and subsidies to enforce hiring Americans is kind of lame,"

Very lame. A $5 trillion transfer of wealth to the top and nothing for the beat down worked to exhaustion working stiff.

"we the consumer had a heavier hand in this than the white house ever had. We buy ipods made in sweatshops, shit on american cars even when they win awards, and take pretty good care to avoid buying american all by ourselves"

we the consumers didn't negotiate the trade policies and we the consumer have lived through 30 years of stagnating/declining wages . No doubt people have looked for cheaper products. And the President, last I heard, was advocating more of the job destroying free trade policies.

"The white house needs to create new sectors, like green energy"

Yes, we do. Let's hope we see some real effort towards it.

"Private education is a nightmare in waiting, but until we on a local level our willing to confront how we pay for public education (notably the disparity in money between rich and poor neighborhoods and that correlation to school quality) and crime, then we can't expect much. Have to fix the ills Harlem Children's zone style before you see and education revolution. "

The amount of money they're spending on Arne's Race to Privatize would go a long way in solving the problems. The chronic underfunding of public education since Reagan is the problem. Now, they seem to have plenty of money to tear down the public system to turn it over to the profiteers but no money to restore it. It's obvious who this will benefit and it ain't us or our children.

"recession's suck and the mob doesn't want spending, sorry on the jobs programs. Reds are effective at getting their way on this."

A bald faced media lie. All recent polling shows jobs and the economy are the top issues Americans are concerned about. Spending is falling to #4 & 5 on their list of concerns. The President would do well to stand up to the 'reds.' The people would be with him on it.

"on CFC: don't let the senate off the hook: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/67293-sens-squeeze-s... "

You may not recall, the Senate defeated the bill to create the Cat Food Commission. President Obama turned around and created it by executive order. We wouldn't have to be worried about it, at all, if it wasn't for his action. Whatever happens with it now is on him. He created it all on his own.


I am a little hostile, now. My husband and I have worked ourselves to exhaustion over the years trying to get a little ahead and make a life. Now in his 60's and me in my 50's, his long standing business failed with the crash the banksters and WS orchestrated. My job is gone. Our savings went to pay our COBRA and our house note over a period of a year so he could finish his cancer treatments. Now, we're without insurance and hoping he's OK. We've stayed one step ahead of losing our house but will, likely, lose it in the end. We lived on a friend's couch through the winter cause we couldn't afford the propane to heat our house (which is now worth $60,000 less than we owe on it). We work our asses off in the blazing heat in his shop just trying to get enough work out to eat and put gas in the falling apart car and pray every time we finish a little job that it's not the last job we'll see. And we have a commission that wants to keep me waiting til 70 to draw SS benefits which might be enough to keep me from starving in my old age. And I come here and get told I just want a pony by people on this site who think this is all just some sort of sporting event. I probably do sound a little hostile.

[defendandprotect]

280. Thank you, laughingliberal -- and didn't know this . . .

You may not recall, the Senate defeated the bill to create the Cat Food Commission. President Obama turned around and created it by executive order. We wouldn't have to be worried about it, at all, if it wasn't for his action. Whatever happens with it now is on him. He created it all on his own.

Wow!!

I'll be doing everything I can to move this administration to the LEFT --

and/or finding a new Democrat to run in 2012 -- !!

[laughingliberal]

288. I wish I could think of a way to move them left.

Generally, we managed to drive public support for several good liberal ideas way up. That is the usual way to move a leader but it seems to have no effect on the current crop. The influence of corporate money in politics is stronger than the needs of the people. It's discouraging to say the least.

[defendandprotect]

376. Think we have to go back to a really old word for bribery . . .

"PAYOLA" . . . ???

Though maybe we need a new word to break thru the lie of campaign financing?

Actually, I think we need to keep getting louder and louder and more in their faces --

but I see no Democrat inviting us out to demonstrate for any liberal cause --

Do you?

Obviously, they don't have to BUY demonstrators as the right wing does -- T-baggers are

bought and paid for -- and run by a PR firm.

Presume Obama really didn't want us out demonstrating for MEDICARE FOR ALL, for instance?

Keep up the good work -- !!



:)

[defendandprotect]

276. Public Option had 76% approval among the public ... including Catholics, even higher!!

"It isn't his thing" . . .

:rofl:

We have Arizona in turmoil over immigration and Obama couldn't give leadership to

E-Social Security card check? Not a big enough "fish," eh?

The "red herring" in all of this is how the Dems continue to surrender to a threat

of a filibuster -- make them filibuster -- or end it.

Don't know how often you shop, but most of our goods are made in other countries . . . !!

The white houses inability to manipulate tax breaks and subsidies to enforce hiring Americans is kind of lame, but American business and we the consumer had a heavier hand in this than the white house ever had. We buy ipods made in sweatshops, shit on american cars even when they win awards, and take pretty good care to avoid buying american all by ourselves. The white house needs to create new sectors, like green energy, to replace the obs being lost. Also we're just catching up, Ohio was losing millions of jobs in 2004, because once again we treat American manufacturing like a joke but wonder why jobs go overseas.

there are few ways to avoid buying imported goods -- the option is to do without.

American cars still did not meet the quality of imported cars -- and that probably has a great

deal to do with their alliance with the oil industry. Well, they stuck with it -- gave citizens

crap MPG -- Congress didn't enforce any higher MPG -- and now they want to complain?


And obviously here . . .

ON health, yeah people are trapped, but hopefully exchanges will allow them to choose a better plan and get their kids on their longer.

you must have some quite unusual coverage. Everyone is threatened in America by the lack of

a government run health care plan -- MEDICARE FOR ALL. And every day, more and more of them

understand how "trapped" they are! And what Obama did with the country's best chance for

MEDICARE FOR ALL in decades!

Amazing that you're saying we don't have the $$ for public education . . .
Private education is a nightmare in waiting, but until we on a local level our willing to confront how we pay for public education (notably the disparity in money between rich and poor neighborhoods and that correlation to school quality) and crime, then we can't expect much. Have to fix the ills Harlem Children's zone style before you see and education revolution.

but you're not acknowledging that Obama/Duncan are taking the $$$ and giving it to privatized

education!!

this is more likely a "Depression" as Obama called it recently . . .

recession's suck and the mob doesn't want spending, sorry on the jobs programs. Reds are effective at getting their way on this.

The "mob" idea of democracy is the stated fear of the right wing --

Unless we want more Depression, we need serious jobs programs --


If Obama doesn't begin moving to the left, we should find a more liberal Democrat to run

in 2012 --

Senator Sander Levin on floor of USHR right now . . . "Where are the jobs?"

Tax Incentives for Infrastructure Investment --

and he's saying that "people" really understand what this is all about --

OVERTURN THE TRADE AGREEMENTS -- AND THE BUSH/REAGAN TAX CUTS!!




. . .

Actually, public option had 76%+ approval by public --

the PO was soaring and it kept soaring eventually reaching over 60% support. Rahm didn't like that.

Nothing in the financial reform bill to break up TBTF. The WH lobbied against that.

No deep audit of the Fed. The White House lobbied against that. After all, can't have the American people seeing that $4.6 trillion of their money that was given to the fat cats with no strings attached.

Lackadaisical, if any, support for card check which could put workers back on the road to some power in the workplace.

More 'free trade' policies being touted by WH in order to ship more of our jobs out.

Americans now enslaved as far as they eye can see to the for profit health insurance companies, needing their employer sponsored benefits more than ever (read more trapped in a job they'd like to leave more than ever).

Education reform moving towards more privatization of our school system, with public money, of course (for God's sake, Newt Gingrich supports their plans).

'Limited resources' for a jobs' program.

HAMP hands the banksters $75 billion more for the foreclosure crisis with no requirements that they, actually, help anyone.

Creates the Cat Food Commission by executive order so our FICA can be turned over to WS after cutting our benefits & requiring us to slave a few more years at our jobs.

Yeah, I'm not impressed, so far.

[scentopine]

350. +1000 !

[defendandprotect]

269. 76%+ of the public wanted a government run health plan/public option . . .that only increased ...

as the debate went on --

The intrinsic problem is BRIBERY -- pre-ownership of our candidates and elected

officials by corporations --

and the DLC pushing more of that corporate ownership --

[mitchtv]

249. you really don't know who you are talking to, do you?

like all the mushy moderates are the activists eh? I was marching and going to jail when you were probably in grammar school, Tho age and infirmity have limited my street action I still write and contribute(to some). the do nothings are those you seek to defend here not "us".
I will assume your little lecture excepted me ,as nothing gets me madder than some kid telling me what a Democrat is.

[NodQuestion]

262. not lecturing

And no, I just don't care who you are. I have to operate from a reference point and I grew up watching my friends go to war and old people taking tax breaks on my dime. So I go tout there and did something about it.

And yes, you weren't who I was talking too. And you can shove that attitude. I gritted my teeth calling for Coakly's shitty campaign, got out there for the public option at town halls, and watched the dream of 2008 turn to dust at the inability to mobilize liberals again. I'm certainly no moderate, I'm just not some extremist who see's everything as a failure. So yeah, shove that attitude of yours.

[laughingliberal]

290. Liberals mobilized just fine in the HCR debate. Public support for the PO was, at least, 60%

from July all the way through. It was not liberals who failed to get us the Public Option. How many times should we be called 'fucking retarded' before we realize we're beating our heads against a brick wall of moneyed interests that matter more than we do?

[defendandprotect]

282. Unfortunately, Obama is proving daily that what you fear of the Repugs . . .

is taking place in this administration !!

You may not recall, the Senate defeated the bill to create the Cat Food Commission. President Obama turned around and created it by executive order. We wouldn't have to be worried about it, at all, if it wasn't for his action. Whatever happens with it now is on him. He created it all on his own.


What the Repugs couldn't do, Obama is setting out to do for them!

The chess game is over --

The DLC has co-opted the Democratic Party and it's time to wake up!!

If we can't move this administration to the LEFT -- then we need to find a new Democratic

candidate for 2012 --

[MadHound]

301. I just love it, I really do

When folks like yourself bust in here and scold people about what we should be doing, how we should be fighting, etc. etc.

Put your Democratic hard on back in your pocket there sport. You are large on ass u me and short on on actual knowledge, so let me clue you in.

I've been working for the party since McGovern, giving money, time, sweat, blood. I've run campaign offices and walked the streets. I've protested wars, and helped in various social causes. I've unionized two plants in my life. Do not ass u me to know what I've done, or what I have, or have not contributed to the Democratic party or society at large.

Your contention that we're not under assault is belied by Obama's education policies and positions. Being a teacher, I probably know more about this than you do. I suggest that you go do some researcher in order to become more informed. As a teacher I am watching as education funding is becoming dependent upon strings that encourage the widespread adaption of private and charter schools, not to mention a further dependency upon standardized tests and other practices that do harm to our children.

Furthermore, you bemoan the fact that people are not energized within the party, well gee, why do you think. You give them a health care "reform" that hands them over to the tender mercies of the insurance industry without even the benefit of premium price controls, much less a public option. You continue and expand upon the Bush era destruction of civil liberties, throw the LGBT community under the bus, double down twice on the war in Afghanistan, and now are threatening to cut Social Security benefits, ya know, it's kind of hard to get the people energized when they're looking at this kind of record.

What has happened in the Democratic party is that they have strayed from being the party of the people, and rather than conforming to the wishes of the people, they now conform to the wishes of their corporate masters and political ambitions. Thus, they are no longer to those who put them in power, why should we be loyal to them.

I have worked hard for the Democratic party, and as the years and decades rolled by, my rewards have gone from crumbs to now outright hostility to my career, my profession, me. So tell me, please, just how I and millions of other teachers are supposed to get energized in the face of such an assault from a supposedly friendly administration. I'm waiting on your grand pronouncements, if for no other reason than comedic value.

[nikto]

235. This is TRUE--It is inescapable

I wonder if we'll ever know if it is because Obama is actually ideologically right-leaning,
or if he is responding to implicit threats of harm or assassination from the CIA or other "black operations" sources.

Maybe he is just trying to stay alive?

A frightening prospect, but who knows...?

[bobburgster]

243. "...actually quite pragmatic..."

"Myself, and many others, are actually quite pragmatic about politics and realized that change would be incremental, and that it would take time."

I beg to differ with you. Here are just a few that I could remember or find. Obama has accomplished a huge amount, more than in any other first term since Lyndon Johnson. He also has had to deal with the oil spill nightmare in which he got BP to agree to a $20 billion escrow.


* $787 billion-$288 billion -- came in the form of tax cuts, making it one of the largest tax cuts in history, with sizable credits for energy conservation and renewable-energy production as well as home-buying and college tuition.

* Expanded the State Children's Health Insurance Program

* A law to allow the FDA to regulate tobacco

* Enacted legislation to make it easier for workers to sue employers for age or sex discrimination

* The largest land conservation law in nearly two decades

* A credit card holders' bill of rights

* Health Care Reform- He is the only president that managed to get it past. Is it great, no. It is incremental.

* Financial Reform- It is incremental.

There are numerous things I would like to see strengthened or focused on too....jobs being number one, but to say he is attacking you, and comparing him to Bush is way over the top.

[NodQuestion]

245. THIS

is an accurate non hyperbolic account of the last 2 years. Thank you, great post.

[laughingliberal]

248. ....

"* Health Care Reform- He is the only president that managed to get it past. Is it great, no. It is incremental."

No, it's not incremental. It's a huge, sweeping piece of legislation going the wrong direction-towards more enslavement of the people to, yet another, wealthy blood sucking corporate interest.

Oh, and we have 'limited resources' for jobs' programs.

[bvar22]

296. Confusing Quantity for Quality?

In reality, this list is embarrassing considering that the American People gave Obama:

*The White House

*Large MAJORITY in the HOuse

*A filibuster proof MAJORITY in the Senate

*Most importantly, a HUGE Popular Mandate for "CHANGE"...

and this list is the BEST the "CHANGE" President could manage?
a few adjustments around the edges, but NO systemic corrections?
.
.
.
Embarrassing. :blush:

[shireen]

353. +1

[bobburgster]

387. You and I both know...

"...A filibuster proof MAJORITY in the Senate...."

he got nothing of the sort.

[sandyj999]

257. Didn't want a pony but didn't want the manure either.

Same old crap.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

283. Here's my analogy for how the Obama administration has turned out

I live in Minneapolis. It feels as if the Obama administration claimed that it would take us on a road trip to Vermont. OK, I preferred to to to Europe, but Vermont would do. Better than the road trip to Honduras that McCain was promising.

So I get on the bus. I'm not too worried when we start heading south out of Minneapolis on I-35, because you have to in order to pick up one of the Interstates that goes east. I-94 would be quicker, but I-90 is OK, too.

So I settle back. All of a sudden, I see an exit sign for Des Moines, Iowa. Wait a minute! Isn't that south of I-90? I mention my concerns, but the tour guide says that I don't understand. So I think, "OK, maybe he's going to take I-80." Oops, now we're in Kansas City. Time to turn onto I-80. But wait, the bus keeps heading south. I mention my concerns again, and before I know it, we're in Oklahoma City, then Fort Worth, and headed straight for Laredo and the Mexican border.

I'm getting more and more unhappy, and the tour guides tell me I'm being silly, because the driver never said he was taking us to Vermont. Yet I have it on video on my cell phone him saying that we were going to Vermont.

And the tour guide says, "But you have to start somewhere, and the driver has to consider the opinions of all the people who want to go to Honduras."

"But most of us bought our tickets with the intention of going to Vermont!" I exclaim, and other passengers join with me. "If we were really going to Vermont, we would have expected to pass through Chicago, Cleveland, and upstate New York. Even if the bus had stopped dead in Chicago, we would have been closer to Vermont. Maybe the next driver would have taken us the rest of the way."

The tour guides just laugh at us, and ask us if we'd rather go to Honduras. Or they tell us that we're too demanding. Or they tell us that the driver has been driving for only two days.

But now we're headed toward Laredo, and it's clear that this driver intends to take us to Honduras, too.

That's what the Obama administration feels like.

[defendandprotect]

286. There actually is an old saying about all of that . . .

"The Republicans are the express train to Auschwitz --

and the Democrats are the local train to Auschwitz --"

And that will be true as long as corporations are penetrating the party and

moving it to the right --

Cause that's where capitalism ends up -- in harvesting slave labor all over the world --

and in its perpetual war on nature, animal-life -- and even other human beings.

Capitalism is suicidal -- and suicide for all of us --



Most of all we need to overturn these trade agreements cause even if we get a jobs program

the trade agreements will continue to suck jobs out of America!

[canoeist52]

321. Great and accurate analogy

Kept shifting the goalpost.

[scentopine]

345. Brilliant analogy - original and fresh, thank you! -nt

[sendero]

284. Of course we weren't..

.. and it's no surprise that the "centrists" would use a right-wing tactic, that of simultaneously declaring our wishes whimsical and unrealistic, to try to cover for their failure to accomplish anything of importance.

[flvegan]

287. This thread is chock full of awesome.

[Number23]

289. "It is the simple fact that we are now under assault by this administration"

Are you out of your mind? Are you serious?

Unrec. I am so sick of seeing this shit here.

[savalez]

333. me too and I'm new!

[Name removed]

292. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

305. For some of us voting for "kinder,gentler Repuke" --

who has a "D" after their name just isn't working anymore.

[Odin2005]

298. "BUT IT'S JUST ONE SONG!!!"

[RetroLounge]

302. This thread is not YET full of win

waiting for the BLUE LINKS to show up and show me some sense.

:hi:

K&R

RL

[highplainsdem]

303. K&R

[provis99]

306. To the DLC: I want justice. And a pony.

Because you fucking promised it.

[democrat2thecore]

310. I *** WISH *** I could disagree. But I simply cannot. -nt

[tallahasseedem]

311. Cry me a river...

and vote Republican next time. They'll make it ALL better for you!

Got it?

[Swamp Rat]

313. I wanted a gilded unicorn pony with beer nipples

but instead I got more war, unemployment, no health insurance, and a destroyed environment... on a moldy bun with a can of...

[WillyT]

320. You Too ?!?!? - ROFLMAO !!!

:rofl:

:beer:

:smoke:

:hi:

[Forkboy]

324. MMMMMMM....beer nipples.

[scentopine]

347. Nice! Who is artist? -nt

[scentopine]

371. Duh! Just saw your (c) - very nice work! -nt

[Swamp Rat]

377. Thanks

:hi:

[scentopine]

404. Brilliant! You've got some serious skill - thank you! I feel

sorry for the DLC/OFA sycophants who trot out their talking points only to run head first into something like this.

All I can do is sit back and admire...

[Swamp Rat]

405. I haven't updated it for a while,

and it's missing my most recent pix like the one below, but here's a gallery of my work: www.swamp-rat.com

:hi:

[DeSwiss]

322. K&R! n/t

[RoccoR5955]

325. So I hope that you're saying that it's a CLASS WAR,

because that's what it is. Within 20 years, if the powers that be have their way, there will be no middle class.

[BrklynLiberal]

326. Great post. thank you.

[Butch350]

327. A 13 year old could say the same about their parents.

[savalez]

331. .

[pleah]

340. K&R Now get angry at the fuckers in the house and senate

who are writing most of the garbage they call legislation!

[scentopine]

346. Exactly - they need all the spying on us incase we get really pissed and

start taking names. The DLC and republican fuckers just keep tightening the noose around our necks.

[Name removed]

342. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SlingBlade]

348. K & R MadHound- You speak for me as well.

[LibDemAlways]

352. Madhound, last night I watched Paul McCartney on PBS performing

in the East Room of the White House on the occasion of accepting the Gershwin Award for popular music. The Obamas, of course, were front and center. My husband watched it alongside me and at one point asked if there were any Republicans in attendance. The response that popped out of my mouth was, "Do you mean, besides Obama?"

You know the old saying that begins, "If it walks like a duck..." That's how I think of Obama.

I'm not terribly disappointed, though. I knew he was well to the right of me. However, I do believe many were taken in by campaign rhetoric. He was and is a politician, and like most in Washington, answers first and foremost to his corporate masters. "We the people" don't matter.

[johnaries]

354. I don't care what you call it, YOU don't "get it".

Real CHANGE doesn't happen overnight. That's the point.

Do you not understand the concept of Democracy?

If we forced our ideals on others based on the results of a single election, how would we be BETTER than any of THEM?

How can you not see that you are the same as the former Bush supporters?

REAL CHANGE takes time, it you want to do it right and if you want it to last. Sure, Obama could write all kinds of Executive Orders - but that would make him even MORE of a dictator than Bush, and they would be gone with the whisk of a pen under the next President.

REAL CHANGE TAKES TIME!

Why can't some people understand that Obama is trying to do things "the right way" and criticize him for not being a "Dictator", like we criticized the previous administration for?

Why? :shrug: Do you not see the hypocrisy in your own statements? Are you so used to Rovian propaganda that you can't see or understand anything else?

This is very sad to me.

[MadHound]

370. So what you're saying is that we have to have multiple election victories before

We implement real change? Funny, but the 'Pugs manage to "forced our ideals on others based on the results of a single election" time and again, every single president.

And it isn't as if we didn't win large majorities in both houses of Congress, or win the WH, we did all of those. But now we have to win it all over again before implementing real change? Wow, talk about moving the goal posts.

What's truly sad is how willing you and others are to accept incremental change from the Democrats. While the 'Pugs pulled off a revolution the minute Reagan, Bush, et al stepped into office, you simply, blindly accept the notion that we have to pussy foot around and do things incrementally. Sad, truly.

[QC]

373. A good president is an impotent president.

That seems to be the sensible approach to these things now.

[cherokeeprogressive]

355. Would that I could state the situation as well as you have. Nailed it. KnR

[liquid diamond]

358. The final paragraph of your post isn't correct.

I listen to people here bitch daily that Obama isn't moving fast enough.
People say they want out of Iraq NOW.
People say they want out of Afghanistan NOW.
People say they want DADT overturned NOW.
People say they want gay marriage legalized NOW.

These are policies that have been in effect for years, but people unrealistically want them overturned NOW.

Now, now, now! It's the inspiration for my avatar.

[MadHound]

372. Yeah, I know the inspiration for your avatar, and where it came from.

It was just as much overblown childish hyperbole originally, and it is all the much more so now. What, you think that the rest of us can't read what's going on in that little clubhouse of yours:eyes:

The fact of the matter is that you apparently can't read my posts for comprehension, otherwise you would recognize that what I am asking for isn't change NOW, but rather to live under the apparently misguided notion that a sitting Democratic president would not go out and deliberately attack large swathes of his base, you know, like teachers, civil libertarians, etc. etc.

What is also truly sad is that you and so many others are so willing to accept change in such incremental steps, while the 'Pugs manage to foment a political revolution every time they get the WH. While they push through broad sweeping measures, the Dems are more than willing to move slowly, not wanting to upset the apple cart.

Now is not the time for incremental changes, nor is it the time for Obama to be attacking his base. You might be able to accept such conditions, but fewer and fewer people who make up this Democratic coalition simply can't. Therefore, rather than placing the imperative upon those people to shut up and get in line, perhaps the Democratic party needs to start adjusting its actions in order to better match up with their constituents. After all, that is, at least nominally, how a democracy is supposed to work.

[Swamp Rat]

386. Some of us are out of time, and can no longer wait for slow, incremental change

We will be dead before we even get a pony's doo doo droppings.

[maritzasolito]

360. You should vote repugnant from this day forwad

[amborin]

361. K&R

[Joe Fields]

366. Oh, I got it the moment he ran for the presidency.

I just wish many others here could have gotten it.

[KakistocracyHater]

367. yeah, staying pro-choice instead of volunteering to put the Stupak wack on bc

inviting Rick Warren was just a harbinger, & from there......too many right turns to be genuinely Liberal/Lefty

[democracy1st]

368. K & R

[Raine]

382. K & R & a BIG thumbs up nt

:thumbsup:

[Vickers]

383. "we are now under assault by this administration, just as we were under Bush"

Yup, exactly the same.










(jesus fucking christ...)

[burnsei sensei]

389. +1 nt

[uponit7771]

396. +1,

[JoePhilly]

397. ... on a pogo stick ...

[FraDon]

394. SO well said! • k&r • Thnx MadHound. - Yet, neighbors, …

my vice-grips on his testicles theory suggests this is a foundational, SOP, game plan fundamental for the Opposition (public & private): Do NOT let the SOB govern; full stop. ∆ I'm still not over the sinister, shameless spiderweb they spun around Jimmy Carter.

Under assault is on point - on all fronts. That kind of money and influence buys a LOT of simultaneous operations. ∞ The very shreds of our lacerated Democracy, hang in an ill wind out here. Yet we can not stop our work; we must keep voting (and make the election process unimpeachable); we must STOP this rapidly escalating next war before it's launched (yes, while struggling to stop the current, perpetual war$).

War remains too damn profitable. The honorable, Gen. Smedley Butler was told by one of the plotters of the Millionaires Coup against FDR in 1933 (before he blew a big whistle on them before a Congressional Committee) that he would gladly spend $30 of his accumulated millions, to save the other $30. That was 1933 dollars. That'll finance a LOT of simultaneous assaults.

Hardball, baby. ∞ And, by the way, we can handle the truth. Let's try it more often.
_

[uponit7771]

398. What have YOU done to get Obama the resources he needs to be more progressive?

Thx

[MadHound]

399. Umm, he doesn't need resources from me,

If you're talking about working for his campaign and putting Dems into Congress, yes, I helped with that. But the fact of the matter is that it is Obama who determines what sort of ideological path he takes, not me, not you. And frankly, Obama has taken a very right leaning course, to the point where in my younger days he would have been considered a moderate Republican instead of a Democrat.

[Laelth]

400. k&r for reality. Well said. n/t

-Laelth